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Post by Rajiv on Jul 9, 2010 14:33:57 GMT 8
This thread currently deals with the above subject matter. Announcements and developments relating to the subject matter are posted below. Go to the last page (by clicking the largest number to the left of "NEXT >>" above) for the latest announcement/development. As the subject matter has been modified from time to time, as described in various posts below, any given post may not fall squarely within the subject matter. As at 17 February 2014, this first post on this thread was: Reza asked how line ups are determined. There have been a lot of changes since last August. Currently, under the GIFFA System, "any regular can volunteer to divide the players into two teams". Poh Keng has been covering the Tuesday night game while Look Liew has been covering the Sunday evening game. Murray has done a few Thursday night games. Neil S had a go for last night's game. I'm still doing the remaining games. I frequently get requests for new players to be on the same side as their introducer. I have been keeping new players in the same team as their introducer. I now try to keep friends together on the same team. To the extent I have the information, I also try to get a mix of: The others who have done line ups may not have all the information I have, but may have played more regularly with the other players, so they may use different criteria. A formal system for deciding line ups made it seem more important than it was. In the end, the main purpose of the message board (as was the case with the blog before), is to get enough players for each game. As we only have one hour for each game, deciding line ups before hand is primarily to save time at the pitch, so we can play one hour flat out. Anyone can suggest changes, and anyone who volunteers to swap from the winning side to the losing side during a one-sided game gets 0.5 bonus points. Nevertheless, we don't always get even sides. My preference is for any two regulars to contact each other and take turns to pick their teams from the pool of players who have put their names down. Then either of them can post the line ups on the message board. However, I appreciate that most of us don't have the time to do so. |
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Post by Dhiraj on Jul 14, 2010 8:53:56 GMT 8
This is a useful post and should probably be highlighted somehow on the schedule page, where the team picking takes place?
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Post by Rajiv on Jul 14, 2010 23:15:07 GMT 8
The issues have been highlighted in the regular e-mails several times since August 2009.
As you suggest Dhiraj, I'll include a link in the schedule threads for a few weeks to this topic.
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Post by Rajiv on Jul 23, 2010 10:53:05 GMT 8
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Post by Rajiv on Aug 27, 2010 14:55:17 GMT 8
If two regular players disagree on the line up, the best way forward is for them to take turns to pick players. They can do it by phone, by SMS or via the message board's private messages feature. |
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Post by Rajiv on Sept 26, 2010 10:17:57 GMT 8
There has been some controversy over the line ups over the past few weeks, especially for the regular 5 to 6 pm game on Sundays at the Premier Pitch. For the 7 or 8-a-side games, there is a feeling that both teams should be balanced between defenders, midfielders and strikers. While positions are more important for the 7 or 8-side games than they are for the 5-a-side games, we are not so specialized that we can't move around - after all, none of us are professionals, are we. This is social football, albeit with a competitive edge. I think it's more important to have a mix of stronger and weaker players in both sides, so that the two teams are balanced. It's not a perfect science, and sometimes, we will get it wrong. If the person who does the line up is playing, and his side is leading by a big margin halfway through the game, he should swap himself for someone on the other side who is struggling. Jye did it last week, and I did it on Wednesday. I'll do the line ups for a while. If anyone thinks the side they are on is significantly weaker, you can let me know, and I will switch you to the other side. If the teams swap players at the game itself, it should be to make the line ups more even, not less even.  |
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Post by Rajiv on Sept 27, 2010 22:28:04 GMT 8
It's always better to hear what those on the losing side have to say about the line ups. As the aim of our games is social, I try to not to have the same players always on the same side or always on opposing sides. In the case of the latter, it may lead to personal rivalries, which is not useful. If 2 or 3 friends put their names down together, I try to keep them on the same side. However, if 4 or more friends put their names down together, I may well split them up, so that at least 2 are on the same team. However, I will keep new players on the same team as their friends. If a group of 5 or more regularly want to be on the same team, then try to arrange your own representative games. Mark T has a team available to play against! |
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Post by Rajiv on Sept 28, 2010 15:33:12 GMT 8
Not happy. Offensive forces were well balanced but whites' defense was impenetrable. To put Rajseran, Anthony and Azmi in the same team is tantamount to building a concrete wall in front of their goal. Same situation as the week before except I was in the winning team this time... Thanks Fred. If those on the losing side commented more, such considerations, in particular, those relating to individual players, can be taken into account in future. However, it will never be a perfect system, nor can it be. As long as one side isn't overrun by the other (in which case, perhaps the line ups should be completely re-done, even if halfway through the game), you win some and you lose some. Ultimately, it's how everyone plays on the day. |
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 30, 2011 10:44:28 GMT 8
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Post by Rajiv on Feb 16, 2011 12:39:06 GMT 8
.... I received the following private message from Gilbert L after the game last night, presumably a match report: The rules actually provide: Earlier (in August 2009), I had raised the following when discussing line ups on the blog: In response to Gilbert's comments, I have highlighted some of the considerations set out above. |
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Post by Rajiv on May 12, 2011 9:11:02 GMT 8
Hahaha....I think we shud try to stick to the last team sheet where Gilbert n I r in the same team...and I think the reason was not " not meant to be" it's coz the force was too strong till the lightbox got busted...hahahaha lol..... I realise that you and Gilbert haven't been on the same team for a very long time. If I can get the two teams fairly balanced even with you and Gilbert on the same side, I will do that. The proposed line ups for the previous week ( game cancelled due to there being no lights): .... For tonight, I suggest: Whites: Andre, Chih Seng, Gilbert L, Justin, Ben Y, Stan, Melvin L Reds: Rai, Sufian, Bryan F, Kelvin Au, Hail, Jamie, Stephen C Any comments? Everyone, please bring both a white top and a red top in any event. .... |
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Post by Rajiv on May 16, 2011 11:58:38 GMT 8
.... .... If anyone thinks the side they are on is significantly weaker, you can let me know, and I will switch you to the other side. .... I also sometimes get requests to play in one colour or the other. I often won't have the time to completely re-do the line ups, so I might do a quick switch. .... I sometimes won't have the time to completely re-do the line ups to deal with comments and requests after the suggested line ups are put up. If anyone has requests, please try to post them before the suggested line ups are put up (usually 4 to 5 hours before the game). Also, as stated in each schedule thread, where there was a game the week before, "please add your comment on the report thread" and "Comments will be taken into account in future line ups". It's also always open to the players to make further changes at the game itself, either by switching back to the original line ups or by making further changes. That's why every time I suggest line ups, I go on to request everyone bring both colours. .... |
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Post by Rajiv on Jun 4, 2011 21:45:34 GMT 8
.... I'm always open to comments. When the suggested line ups are put up, I specifically ask for comments. However, very few players comment on the line ups. Only you and Look Liew have on a couple of occasions suggested line ups (or partial line-ups) before I put them up. I do consider what you suggest, but I don't necessarily follow the suggestion, unless I think it is ok. In fact, as I've stated before, those playing are at liberty to make changes before the start of the game, or at any time during the game. Unlike FIFA, we maintain a policy of openness and transparency for GIFFA.  I prefer comments to be provided on the schedule thread or by private message on the message board. SMS is ok, but I do try to cut down on SMSes. It is preferable if I receive the following types of comments before I put up my proposed line ups: * Suggested line ups, or partial line ups. * Colour preference. * Players you'd like to be on the same side with. * Players you don't want to be on the same side with (reasons should be provided ) After the proposed line ups are put up, I'd be grateful if comments could be limited to the balance of the teams and sensible player swaps. |
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Post by Rajiv on Jun 5, 2011 7:02:24 GMT 8
The issue of how suggestions for the line ups should be made has come up. I suggest: Whites: Foo Cheong, Look Liew, Titus, Jye, Lynz, Raminder, Nawal, CH Lim Reds: Rajseran, Arijit, See Kit, Imran, Sushil, Elvin, Jason T, Joel I switched Lynz and Elvin based on an SMS a short while ago suggesting certain combinations. Any other comments? Everyone, please bring both a white top and a red top in any event. .... Wanna try elvin rajseran Sushil and Imran vs Raminder and bro jye Lynz . Hi Rajiv this was SMS to you at 12.22 pm which I suggested only . At 12.30 pm you have posted that my suggestion had influence your actual line up . First question is I don't even know what was the actual line up as I had to leave early for work and only saw your post later . Think you have to clarify this as after the match since red won , the blame has come to me that I have influenced the line up . Rajseran, I got your SMS after I had typed out the original line ups but before I posted it. The only change arising from your SMS was to switch Lynz and Elvin. That is clear from my earlier post. I felt it wouldn't make any difference as Lynz has been in very good form. I later removed your name from the earlier post as I didn't want who the SMS was from to be an issue. The only reason I mentioned the switch was so that if anyone thought it was not fair, they could say so, and I would have switched the two players back, so that the line ups would have been what I originally had in mind. As no one commented on the switch, I assume no one thought the switch was unfair before the game. I'm always open to comments. When the suggested line ups are put up, I specifically ask for comments. However, very few players comment on the line ups. Only you and Look Liew have on a couple of occasions suggested line ups (or partial line-ups) before I put them up. I do consider what you suggest, but I don't necessarily follow the suggestion, unless I think it is ok. In fact, as I've stated before, those playing are at liberty to make changes before the start of the game, or at any time during the game. Unlike FIFA, we maintain a policy of openness and transparency for GIFFA. wanna call the team - just call the team........and comments if any. sorry i called the team line-ups 6 months back, w Jye, mayb Elvin doing once or twice ...but for me , i 'could never balance the team' n since stopped.... a few changes were suggested but one was only done.....Elvin was mercilessly snapped up by REDs....... Balance wins at the end of the Day .... Raj, feel free to name the lineUps in future; no prob. B regds all Look Liew, what I originally typed out was: "Whites: Foo Cheong, Look Liew, Titus, Jye, Raminder, Nawal, Elvin, CH Lim Reds: Lynz, Rajseran, Arijit, See Kit, Imran, Sushil, Jason T, Joel" What Rajseran suggested was "Wanna try elvin rajseran Sushil and Imran vs Raminder and bro jye Lynz". I received his SMS while checking on prepayment and typing out the rest of the post, before posting it. The only difference between what I had typed and what he suggested was Lynz for Elvin, which I thought wouldn't make any difference, so I made the switch. Although it was made before I posted, I amended the post to mention it, so that anyone who thought it wasn't fair could ask for it to be reversed. When I switched Elvin and Lynz, I accidently deleted CH. I put his name back when you pointed out his name was missing. I have no problem with anyone suggesting line ups before I do. You have, twice since the end of April 2011, albeit on the message board: how about : REDs - Phillip, Tan Wee, Wayne, Jayant, Sean M, Yip Weng, Dave H, Vincent C WHITEs - LL, Titus, Cheng Poh, Damian, Andrew Y, Fred, Stephen, Azmi plse bring both a RED n WHITE top....... and How about a friendly : LL + friends V Elvin n the Rajmunks - WHITES : LL, Titus, Vincent Yeow, CH, Sanjay, Foo Cheong, Cheng Poh, KK REDS : Elvin, Raj, Boris, Tan Wee, Wing Kong, Lynz, Damian, Phillip WHITES weaker , on paper, but what the heck.....we gonna learn a few tricks frm Messi tonite..... gentleman da - name the team sheet 32 hours before kickoff........ Even Timmy suggested line ups once last month: Timmy has 2 friends playing, so he SMSed last night to suggest the following: Whites: CH Lim, Look Liew, (Cheng Poh), Elvin, Rajseran, Timmy, Markus, Andreas Reds: Damian, Azmi, Julius, David M, Philip S, Lynz, Siang Jin, Andrew Y I added Cheng Poh to Whites as I believe Look Liew would want him on his team. Looks alright to me. Any comments? Everyone, please bring both a white top and a red top in any event. , Damian's comments resulted in a change which favoured the team Look Liew was on while adversely affected the team on which Elvin and Rajseran were on. These things happen. I have no problems with any player suggesting line ups, and I prefer to be open and transparent about it. Perhaps I should have typed out Rajseran's SMS in full, so that there wouldn't be any misunderstanding, but as I was trying to get the line ups out, I didn't want to spend more time on that. .... I prefer comments to be provided on the schedule thread or by private message on the message board. SMS is ok, but I do try to cut down on SMSes. It is preferable if I receive the following types of comments before I put up my proposed line ups: * Suggested line ups, or partial line ups. * Colour preference. * Players you'd like to be on the same side with. * Players you don't want to be on the same side with (reasons should be provided ) After the proposed line ups are put up, I'd be grateful if comments could be limited to the balance of the teams and sensible player swaps. Any reasons given for not wanting to be on the same side with a particular player will be treated as private and confidential. Ultimately, suggesting line ups is not an exact science. The main reason line ups are suggested 4 to 5 hours before the game on the message board is to save time - so we don't have to sort out line ups at the game itself. The better we know the players, the easier it gets. Comments and feedback from the other players helps as well. |
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Post by Rajiv on Jun 5, 2011 7:43:07 GMT 8
Further to the above, any reasons given for not wanting to be on the same side with a particular player will be treated as private and confidential. .... Even Timmy suggested line ups once last month: .... Three weeks ago, Damian's comments resulted in a change which favoured the team Look Liew was on while adversely affected the team on which Elvin and Rajseran were on. These things happen. .... I have no problems with any player suggesting line ups, and I prefer to be open and transparent about it. Except of course if the contents should be treated as private and confidential, for example, if it is unflattering of a particular player. .... ..., suggesting line ups is not an exact science. The main reason line ups are suggested 4 to 5 hours before the game on the message board is to save time - so we don't have to sort out line ups at the game itself. The better we know the players, the easier it gets. Comments and feedback from other players helps as well. |
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Post by Rajiv on Jun 12, 2011 10:01:49 GMT 8
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Post by Rajiv on Jun 14, 2011 18:17:08 GMT 8
There is a limit on the number of names one member can put down for a game, as follows: I should re-state the principle as follows - in the first 72 hours after the schedule thread for a game is put up, one member should avoid filling more than one-third of the places for that game (not counting himself). .... This works out to: * Maximum 8-a-side game - 5 other names + member himself. * Maximum 7-a-side game - 4 other names + member himself. * Maximum 5-a-side game - 3 other names + member himself. .... However, after 72 hours, a player can put more names down. If the aim is to put half or close to half the names down so that you can play as a team, I might consider it if the other team would not significantly weaker. The issue has come up again today. One of the basic princiiples is that in suggesting line ups on the message board, we try to have balanced sides. As stated above: .... If 2 or 3 friends put their names down together, I try to keep them on the same side. However, if 4 or more friends put their names down together, I may well split them up, so that at least 2 are on the same team. However, I will keep new players on the same team as their friends. If a group of 5 or more regularly want to be on the same team, then try to arrange your own representative games. .... If it's only 2 or 3 friends, I can still try to balance the sides, while keeping them together. With 4, 5 or 6 friends, it gets increasingly harder. |
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Post by Rajiv on Jun 18, 2011 16:16:29 GMT 8
Sometimes, I make changes to the line ups within 5 or 10 minutes of putting them up, as when I look at them again, I think they're not balanced, or for any other relevant reason. If you happen to spot the changes, no point commenting on the fact that there has been a change, as I will delete the comment. Today, Boris observed that a change had been made, and when I deleted his post, Rainer observed that Boris' post had been deleted, which I deleted as well. I just don't want other players, who may not have seen the change, speculating as to what the change might have been. Of course, you are still free to comment on the line ups as they appear. If a change is made based on another player's comments, I will not replace the earlier line ups. Instead, if I think a change is appropriate, I will make the change, and state why the change was made. |
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Post by Boris on Jun 18, 2011 16:23:16 GMT 8
haha got it.. i didn't mind about the change.. i just wasn't sure if i was still high from last night and seeing things..  |
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Post by Rajiv on Jun 22, 2011 8:57:46 GMT 8
Yesterday: Mark T SMSed to say he only has red for today. I'm ok accomodating such requests, just that it should be made before the line ups are put up. I can swap the colours round, but I don't know who has already looked at the line ups and will turn up in the wrong colour. .... Previously: .... I prefer comments to be provided on the schedule thread or by private message on the message board. SMS is ok, but I do try to cut down on SMSes. It is preferable if I receive the following types of comments before I put up my proposed line ups: * Suggested line ups, or partial line ups. * Colour preference. * Players you'd like to be on the same side with. * Players you don't want to be on the same side with (reasons should be provided ) After the proposed line ups are put up, I'd be grateful if comments could be limited to the balance of the teams and sensible player swaps. |
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Reza asked how line ups are determined. 
