|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jun 23, 2011 8:57:18 GMT 8
For tonight's game: David T would like to request to be teamed together with Alex L, Mark L, Kelvin H, Daniel T2 and Derian please. Its not representative..its just a giggly good time! Thank you very very much in advance. I also received the following private message from Mark Li on Tuesday evening. As I said before: .... If 2 or 3 friends put their names down together, I try to keep them on the same side. However, if 4 or more friends put their names down together, I may well split them up, so that at least 2 are on the same team. However, I will keep new players on the same team as their friends. .... and .... If the aim is to put half or close to half the names down so that you can play as a team, I might consider it if the other team would not significantly weaker. .... One of the basic princiiples is that in suggesting line ups on the message board, we try to have balanced sides. .... If it's only 2 or 3 friends, I can still try to balance the sides, while keeping them together. With 4, 5 or 6 friends, it gets increasingly harder. I had a similar request for the game at Sports Planet on Tuesday, 14 June 2011: yes i have a comment. could you line up David T, Kelvin H, Mark Li, Chern Yang, Jessen, Wilson together and anyone else you feel like putting together with us please? Hopefully everyone is ok with that..these are my friends and is possible we like to lose together haha okok? My response was: It's difficult for me to pick one player out to join your team, which would in any event be much stronger than the rest, if for no other reason than that you play together as a team regularly, and you're all roughly of the same standard, while the others are of variable standards. As replied by me to [David T's] private message last week: 6 divides neatly into two teams. If you want to play together, you can play as 6 v 8.  On that occasion, the 6 were split equally two teams, and we had our first ever goalless draw! Last Thursday, David T and four other friends (Alex Liau, David T, Wilson, Chern Yang, Daniel T2) were in one team (Whites). Even with a player short (Srini pulled out very late) and having played for 2 hours before the game, they won by 3 goals, against a decent Reds team. The previous games when David T and his friends have been in the same team: 3 of today's 6 were in a team with you and 3 of your friends (4 out of 7) that won comfortably on 18 May 2011. I know that there were a couple of other results that didn't go your way: * 26 May 2011 - One team was entirely you and your friends, but your team had already played one hour before (your fault ), and the rest of us had an extra player (because you said your team didn't mind). Even then, your team led for most of the game, and only collapsed in the last 15 minutes due to fatigue. * 2 June 2011 - Niel and I joined you and your five friends in one team, to play against the rest. Your team lost very narrowly, mainly because Niel and I had really bad games. .... For tonight's game, I think even though David T/Mark Li and his friends will be the stronger team, there is enough strength in the remaining players to make for a competitive match, so for this game, subject to the views of the other players, I'm minded to agree to have David T, Mark Li and their 4 friends in one team. In the longer term, if 5 to 7 friends regularly want to be on the same team, it will have to be outside our regular games. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jun 23, 2011 9:12:54 GMT 8
.... If the aim is to put half or close to half the names down so that you can play as a team, I might consider it if the other team would not significantly weaker. The issue has come up again today. One of the basic princiiples is that in suggesting line ups on the message board, we try to have balanced sides. .... If it's only 2 or 3 friends, I can still try to balance the sides, while keeping them together. With 4, 5 or 6 friends, it gets increasingly harder. |
|
|
|
Post by David T on Jun 24, 2011 11:33:18 GMT 8
if we request for same team, then the other team would also be playing regularly with each other and I think that helps to develop understanding and improve the overall gameplay by both sides no?
my good guess is that sometimes a mixed team doesnt even know all the names of their own team mates.
For example, even my friends are not familiar with Justin and Alex L, but because we play together, we are also able to bring them into the game and build understanding..I honestly think that helps improve the quality.
I have played a few times already and although the hour is short, sometimes i seldom see players touching the ball much, either cause they are tired or nobody passes the ball to them. Sometimes teammates are also moving/running into the same spaces. So wouldn't playing together regularly help build up the quality?
end of the day i think its all good clean fun with lots of effort and running..with moments of applause and encouragement from both sides when there are good goals scored or even brilliant saves. Main gist is to sweat it out correctly!
|
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jun 24, 2011 12:14:11 GMT 8
Like I said David, it really depends who the other players are. We have at least 100 players who play weeknights, some of whom play almost every week, some of whom may play once every few months. If there are several weaker players amongst the others, putting just one with you and your friends, even the weakest, can still leave very uneven sides. If the better players who would otherwise play that game feel that week in, week out, they will be left to struggle in a weaker team against you and your friends, they will stop playing, as it's no fun for them. You end up with increasingly one-sided games, in which other players don't want to play. After a while, the game will regularly be short of players, and end up being cancelled. It's happened before. Putting the weakest or a weaker player with your friends also risks identifying a single player as weaker or the weakest. Further, as the weakest player is likely to be one who hasn't played for a while, and as such, may be less familiar with you and your friends, putting him alone with you and your friends risks him feeling out of place with you and your friends on his comeback. If it is 3 or 4, or even 5 friends who would like to play together (in a team of 7), I can still try to balance the two teams out. If it is 6 out of 7, it is much harder, and my inclination will be to split the 6 up between the two teams. Putting all 6 in one team will be the exception. You do have a choice how many of your friends you put down for a game. I'm more flexible with less popular games, as my first aim for such games is to ensure we have enough players. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jun 24, 2011 13:17:41 GMT 8
.... For games at our regular venues (Premier Pitch @ Khalsa, Premier Pitch @ Turf City, Sports Planet and The Cage), if we are short of a player for any reason, we can often pick up an extra player if we ask around. If we pick up an extra player at the venue, we should bear in mind whether it is necessary to make any changes to the line ups, maybe not at the start or the early stages of the game, but, in the same way as for one-sided games, halfway or more through the game: |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jun 24, 2011 13:29:13 GMT 8
As to whether to make changes to the line ups halfway or more through the game in one-sided games, I've added a more detailed discusson here. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jun 28, 2011 11:07:26 GMT 8
New players can affect the balance of a game. For their first game, I treat new players as being about the same standard as the players who introduce them. If they join our games through the message board or our regular venues, I treat them as average (vis-a-vis our entire pool, rather than those actually playing in that game). I won't know how good a new player is unless I play in the same game, or there are comments about him on the message board. If a new player is just one out of 7 players on a team (for a 7-a-side), he is likely to have less of an impact on the game than if he is one out of 5 (for a 5-a-side). Even less so if he is one out of 8 (for an 8-a-side). However, if the new player is very good or weak it can still have quite an impact, even with 8-a-side. personal request to be lined up with hong wei! he is damn shen and i wouldnt want to be in the opposite team haha If anyone knows how good a new player is, you can let me know before his first game. However, I imagine that if the player is good, and you want to be on the same side as him, you might not want to let me know.  I have to thank David for his honesty.
|
|
|
|
Post by David T on Jun 28, 2011 11:21:56 GMT 8
lol but my impression of good may not be the same as others..its just an opinion haha in fact i think all the players are good albeit some making others blood boil haha but no matter what..its just sweating out a good hour that leaves the best impression.
i was just keen in teaming up with a friend i havent played with for 10 years? haha so please play us together!thanks a lot.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jun 28, 2011 21:38:58 GMT 8
|
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jul 16, 2011 9:54:32 GMT 8
Hey Rajiv, Once again if everything is pretty balanced, please put Mark, Wilson, David, Chernyang, Sean, Jessen in one team. Not too sure if you gonna give up your slot for Derian too, but if you do could you also put him together with us please. We'll be doing a 2 hour workout if it can help tilt the balance to put us as a team. thanks .... I understand Whites took a big lead early on but it was more balanced once Reds settled down, and from what I saw, they looked stronger towards the end. .... This is a familiar pattern. The problems we face with a group of friends playing against the rest include: * We always have new players, or players who haven't played together before, so they always end up on the other team, and it takes them a while to develop any kind of understanding. * In the meantime, the group of friends, who already have an understanding, can be expected to pull away with a big lead, leaving the other team to catch up, which can be frustrating. The fact that David and his friends play from 7 to 9 pm before our game is actually all the more reason to split them up. Although the other team usually closes the gap towards the end as exhaustion catches up with them, it makes for consistently lop-sided games, where they take a big lead early on, and the other team closes the gap towards the end. If David's friends were split up between the two teams, the greater fatigue of one team wouldn't be a factor, and the games would be more even, not only between the two teams, but over the course of the game as well. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jul 21, 2011 11:31:22 GMT 8
Are drawn games an indication of even teams? Three draws in a row, all involving coming back from 3 or 4 goals down: * On Sunday, Reds came back from 0-3 and 3-6 down to draw 7-7. * On Tuesday, Whites came back from 1-4 down to draw 5-5. * Last night, Whites came from 0-4 down to 4-6, and then 8-8. Trailing, even by several goals, is an opportunity to re-organize the team, as long as the team doesn't lose it's head or become discouraged. A comeback earlier in the month - on 7 July 2011, Whites came from 3-6 down to level at 6-6. The game finished 7-7. Other drawn games since the start of June: * 14 June 2011, 0-0 (first and so far only goalless draw). * 25 June 2011, 7-7 * 28 June 2011, 4-4 * 3 July 2011, 4-4 Other close games (1 or 2 goals in it): * 1 June 2011, 5-4. * 2 June 2011, 7-6 * 6 June 2011, 11-10 * 11 June 2011, 5-3 * 18 June 2011, 4-2 * 19 June 2011, 9-7 * 22 June 2011, 14-12 * 23 June 2011, 2 goal win. * 29 June 2011, 8-6 * 30 June 2011, 5-4 * 9 July 2011, 7-5 * 10 July 2011, 7-6 * 18 July 2011, 8-6 Consdering tha the scores for only about half the games are reported, and the Thursday night games are skewed by David T and his friends playing as a team, while a couple of Wednesday night games have been skewed by Fai and his friends/relatives playing as a team, that's a lot of close games. Three 7-7 draws, including on 7 July!. One or both teams scoring 7 goals is fairly common at both Premier Pitch venues. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jul 23, 2011 10:25:17 GMT 8
|
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jul 26, 2011 17:42:52 GMT 8
Somewhat uneven line ups on Saturday and Sunday. Trying to keep friends/relatives or players who are familiar with each other on the same team can distort the balance. Hopefully, as players get to know each other better, these factors will be less relevant. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jul 29, 2011 7:35:46 GMT 8
David T has asked that his 6 friends be in one team. It should be ok, as the remaining 8 players are fairly strong. The main issue is which of the 8 should join David's friends to make even numbers. .... Any comments? Several of Reds have not played together before. Also a couple of Reds players are relatively new, .... .... good game overall but think whites ran out of steam too quickly. 1:1 after about 10 min n then reds started to dominate. 4:2, 6:3, 9:4 and eventually 9:5 was the scoreline. ... think whites need to skip their game before the 9pm game or we need to start mixing the players to make it more balanced. .... For the line ups, I accommodate reasonable requests, provided they don't give one team or the other a significant advantage or disadvantage. .... As I said above: .... The fact that David and his friends play from 7 to 9 pm before our game is actually all the more reason to split them up. .... It also really depends on who the other 7 are. For last night's game, like I said, the 7 were fairly strong. In contrast, the game on Wednesday night with Fai's friends/relatives in one team ended 3-3. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Aug 4, 2011 16:51:05 GMT 8
|
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Aug 5, 2011 8:12:39 GMT 8
For last night's game, there was a further reason to have 8 on one team: ... Regarding teams - seems waste to have uneven teams, but will defer to your judgment! .... We have 6 players on the one hand (David T and his 5 friends) and the remaining 8 on the other. The simple way of keeping it 7-a-side would be to divide David's friends into two groups of three and the remaining 8 into two groups of 4, then putting together each group of 3 with one group of 4 to make 7-a-side. To keep David and his 5 friends together in a 7-a-side, one of the 8 would have to switch over. Rather than picking out one of 8, as a couple of David's friends are in reserve, I've let one of them in to make 7 for David's team, without depriving any of the remaining 8 of their place, hence, 7 v 8. It works out better than switching one of the 8 over. However, in the end, with withdrawals, the game ended up as 7-a-side after all. David T's team took a significant early lead, but the others came back to win, reportedly 8-7. (Coincidentally, the number of players originally in each team. ) .... On this occasion, it appears that David T's team didn't pull away as much in the early stages as they had before, and the other team started their comeback earlier, enabling them to take the lead. I understand a couple of players on David T's team were carrying injuries, so that might have been a factor. Alternatively, as there were a few players with Whites who have previously played in our regular Thursday night game against David T's team, perhaps the others are beginning to get a measure of David T's team. .... |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Aug 8, 2011 9:24:08 GMT 8
.... .... Also, as stated in each schedule thread, where there was a game the week before, "please add your comment on the report thread" and "Comments will be taken into account in future line ups". .... .... From now on, the reference is to games over the past week, and the link to the Reports board generally. Players are switching between games more, so no need to limit the invitation for comments to the corresponding game in the earlier week. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Aug 12, 2011 8:54:28 GMT 8
After two successive defeats, David T's team won 8-2 last night. Line ups: I assume David T has put 7 names down to play as a team? Looking at the other 7, I don't have a problem with that, except that the other 7 don't have much of a defence. Even less of a defence than on Sunday, when 4 of the 7 played on the same team. Although it has been reported that Tristan played well in defence yesterday. If we stick with the above, it will be: Whites: Sean L, David T, Kelvin H, Derian, Wilson, Daniel T2, Chern Yang Reds: Arthur, Philip S, Wayne, Tristan, Julius, David M, Dave H but Reds will need to sort out before the game who plays in defence. Alternatively, a couple of swaps before the game starts. Everyone, please bring both a white top and a red top in any event. If anyone can't make it, please let me know early, as Steve F is currently available. .... .... ..., I also noticed that after two successive defeats with weakened teams, [David T] put together [his] "A" team (other than perhaps Mark (who is injured?), and Jessen). With Steve F available, perhaps I should have suggested Reds play with 8 players, as I did last week (although with withdrawals, it ended up as 7-a-side). .... Generally speaking, if one team gets to select its strongest available team, then the other team should as well, which brings us to challenge matches. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Aug 16, 2011 22:19:44 GMT 8
My view has always been: .... If 2 or 3 friends put their names down together, I try to keep them on the same side. However, if 4 or more friends put their names down together, I may well split them up, so that at least 2 are on the same team. However, I will keep new players on the same team as their friends. .... However, as set out above, the games at Khalsa have regularly been: * Fai and his relatives/friends against the rest on Wednesdays. * David T and his friends against the rest on Thursdays. As stated above: .... Trying to keep friends/relatives or players who are familiar with each other on the same team can distort the balance. Hopefully, as players get to know each other better, these factors will be less relevant. For now: The flip side of that is from next month onwards, if there are more than 3 friends/relatives putting their name down for a game, I will look at splitting them up between the two teams. I will still remain flexible with extra games, so a group of friends can form one team. |
|
|
|
Post by Fai on Aug 20, 2011 0:21:58 GMT 8
Rajiv, I can understand your concern on friends/relatives having an advantage because of playing together in the past. I have played in matches where they are not balanced.  From our point of view, we will be most happy to remain as a team. From our past games, the scoreline is usually pretty tight. Hence i believe, this would not cause too much of a threat of a whitewash/ unbalance in the games we play. Our stand is, we leave it up to you to judge to split or not to split. Cos you are in the best position to know most of the players' standard. P.S: If we have teams of identical standards like we had for 27th July/ 13th July, i hope you can kindly put us in the same team. Cos i really believe, the opposition enjoyed the games as much as we do! Cheers, Fai |
|
David T would like to request to be teamed together with Alex L, Mark L, Kelvin H, Daniel T2 and Derian please. Its not representative..its just a giggly good time!
....
