|
|
Post by Rajiv on Apr 16, 2012 9:52:45 GMT 8
Now with the poll for team selectors: .... Bit more complicated for Sunday, as we could have one game or two. I'll put up the poll as usual after we get to 16. However, I'll include all the regular approved players up to 32, so it may be held back until one or two days before the game. If there are two games, the two from each game with the highest number of votes will be the team selectors. If there is only one game, the two must be from the first 16 names. .... |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Apr 30, 2012 17:36:18 GMT 8
Where sufficient players actually bother to vote, having two team selectors has been working well. The team selectors from 1 to 12 April 2012 are listed above. Since 14 April 2012, we've had: * Saturday, 14 April 2012, Turf City - Jye and Lynz elected. * Sunday, 15 April 2012, Turf City - Raminder and Elvin elected. * Tuesday, 17 April 2012, East Coast - Jeff S and Melvin Au elected. * Wednesday, 18 April 2012, Khalsa - no votes. * Thursday, 19 April 2012, East Coast - no poll, as game didn't fill up early enough. * Saturday, 21 April 2012, Turf City - Jye and Lynz elected. * Sunday, 22 April 2012, Turf City - Look Liew and Lynz elected. * Wednesday, 25 April 2012, Khalsa - no votes. * Thursday, 26 April 2012, East Coast - David T's team + Babs v Hail's team. * Saturday, 28 April 2012, Turf City - Fred and Rainer elected. * Sunday, 29 April 2012, Turf City - insufficient votes. By June or July 2012, I will stop suggesting line ups. If there are no team selectors elected before the game, or the team selectors are not able to agree on line ups before the game, the teams can be settled at the venue itself, before the game starts. It will therefore be even more crucial that players arrive 10 to 15 minutes early. As always, bring both colours. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on May 1, 2012 10:09:48 GMT 8
When agreeing on line ups, team selectors do need to bear in mind: * The strengths, weaknesses, and idiosyncrasies of individual players. * How the players on their team fit together. * How to best organize the team, in terms of positions, formation and tactics. Your team is depending on you! .... .... The flip side of that is the players should respect the team selectors, who have been elected by the players themselves. .... |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on May 30, 2012 11:19:10 GMT 8
Team selectors agreeing on the line ups continues to work well. Only the Monday night game at Kallang, the Thursday night game at Khalsa and the Sunday game at Turf City haven't had team selectors. After having no votes for much of April and the first week of May, even the Wednesday night game at Khalsa has been having elected team selectors. In fact, for last Wednesday: .... 8 voters, 16 votes. That's the highest proportion of players voting so far! The Saturday game at Turf City and the Tuesday game at East Coast had regularly had players voting, but have not had more than half the players voting before. We had two players with 3 votes each for last Thursday at Khalsa, but it ended up as Singaporeans v The Rest - actually, David T & friends + me against the rest. We've had such line ups before. For the Sunday game at Turf City, we've had a high turnover of players, and with 2 games on 6 May 2012 and again on 20 May 2012, even when we've had at least 2 players with at least 2 votes each, they've been spread out across 2 games, so not feasible to have team selectors. Where there have been enough players for two games, I have put all the players in one poll, but allow each player 4 votes instead of just 2. Where players have votes, but not enough for team selectors, or for any other reason, there are no team selectors, the players with votes are team captains. For the Monday night game at Kallang, the regulars don't use the message board enough. I have been leaving out of the poll guests, and I often leave out players who don't use the message board or usually rely on others to put their name down for them or to withdraw, and those who haven't played a particular game before or for some time. I will stick with that going forward. I have been adding the reserves in the poll, but state that there is no point voting for them unless they get a place. If a player doesn't want to be considered as team selector, please indicate against your name when you put your name down, or well before the poll closes. Opting out after the poll closes spoils the process. The reason that a minimum of 2 votes each is required for team selectors is that there should be sufficient confidence in team selectors. It also requires more players to vote. .... By June or July 2012, I will stop suggesting line ups. If there are no team selectors elected before the game, or the team selectors are not able to agree on line ups before the game, the teams can be settled at the venue itself, before the game starts. It will therefore be even more crucial that players arrive 10 to 15 minutes early. As always, bring both colours. If for whatever reason we don't have 2 team selectors for a game: * I will not suggest the line ups if I think the players are familiar enough with each other, and were capable of voting 2 team selectors, or agreeing on line ups between themselves. If no one suggests line ups before the game, then everyone turn up early and try to agree on line ups before the game starts. * If I think the players are not familiar enough with each other, I will suggest line ups. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jun 8, 2012 9:19:39 GMT 8
Some recent issues with team selectors: * Getting the balance right. There is a learning curve for team selectors. Experience counts. * Opting out. If you are going to opt out, please do so against your name when you put your name down, or at least well before the poll closes. * Don't have the time to work on line ups / busy at work. The team selector will be replaced by the next eligible player. If there isn't anyone else, and the players are familiar enough with each other, the single team selector can suggest line ups. If the players are not familiar enough with each other, I will suggest line ups. Also, a reminder that the two team selectors must be on opposing teams, with each taking responsibility for one team (otherwise, why have 2?). If they put themselves on the same team, and it is not rectified before the game (as was the case on Tuesday at East Coast), then: * No $2 credit for the team selectors. * However, if the game turns out well enough, $1 each as team selectors, but no additional $1 each as team captains. Likewise, if instead of 2 team selectors agreeing on the line ups, any one player suggests line ups of his own volition, there is no credit. However, if the game turns out well enough, I'll consider giving the player a $1 credit. As for opting out, on Wednesday, we had: can i opt out of team selector? please start voting for others pleaseeeee..i just wanna kick ball without thinking .... selecting teams is done before the game. As team captain, you can be as relaxed or uptight as you want to be. You can still kick the ball without thinking. And if your team does badly, the players may not vote for you again. You sure you want to opt out? yup, i'll pass on the selectorship.. Not knowing the other players well enough is probably a better reason to opt out.  .... Apart from standards, voting is also about getting to know the other players .... .... .... .... Even after all this time, there are players who are fairly regular who have never or hardly ever played together before. .... If its a couple of players you don't know, you can ask me. If I know the player, I will give you my opinion. If I don't know the player, I'll refer you to his introducer, or even the player himself. If there are several players you don't know, it might be better to opt out as team selector. If too many players opt out merely because they don't want the responsibility, I might need to provide further incentive. I could: * Increase the payment per player by $1 each. * Credit of $5 per team selector/captain ($3 as team selector, $2 as team captain). It would remain less for the 5-a-side at Kallang. Out of the increased payment, I could also increase the incentive for reports as follows: * $2 for the first report. * $3 for the best report (as chosen by the readers). For discussion only for now. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Sept 20, 2012 22:54:07 GMT 8
Team selectors voted by the players down for a game agreeing on line ups has been working fairly well. So much so that this thread, previously one of the most active, hasn't had a new post for more than 3 months now! However, where there are several new or newer players, or players returning after a long time, I continue to suggest line ups. However, when I suggest line ups, I am these days more likely to suggest team captains, who can agree to make changes to the line ups any time before or during the game. This is also the case where there are insufficient votes. The minimum number of votes for team selectors is 2 votes each. If there are insufficient votes, the players with any votes are proposed as team captains. Where there is a tie, the player who has played more games over the past 6 months is appointed. As players get used to the system, more players are prepared to have their say as selectors or captains. Even those who were previously reluctant.  The poll for paying for increased incentives out of an increase in payments per player in on the Stand-Alone Polls sub-board. So far, no one in favour.  .... .... I'll let it run until the end of the year. I include in the poll all approved players down for the game, including reserves. However, I leave out guests, new or newer players to that particular game, and players coming back after not having played for a while. I currently only add the poll when all the places for the game are filled. However, if the places fill within a day or two of the schedule thread being put up, I wait a further day or two to see if there are any withdrawals. From now all, I'll add the poll 60 to 30 hours before the game, sooner if all the places are filled, later if there are still places left to fill. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Oct 23, 2012 9:11:33 GMT 8
Some discussion of player swaps on the report thread for the Saturday game: .... I am just coming from the perspective of the players being swapped, that's all. Given the friendships and bonhomie of the Saturday game, the results don't really matter once the first post-game beer has been downed. I know how it feels like because for the first six games or so when I played at Giffa, I was swapped on a couple of occasions and was once swapped and swapped back because the "captains" thought I was a liability to their respective teams. It's not a nice feeling. So I would say that from my personal point of view (and experiences), please try not to swap players just before the game starts. Maybe I am a bit more sensitive than most but everyone has feelings and some personal pride. Peace. There are a variety of reasons that team selectors may agree to swap players, especially if there are new players playing. In the past, where there were new players, I would suggest the line ups, but nowadays, unless there are several new players, and I know most of them, I still leave it to team selectors. Sometimes, during the kick about before the game, it becomes apparent that a new player is much stronger or weaker than anticipated. Or there is a late change in personnel that affects the balance. Or a regular may turn up with some illness or injury that means he won't be performing at his usual level. Or sometimes the two team selectors may turn up at the game and agree on changes to get a better balance either within their respective teams or between the teams. I acknowledge that older, slower players (and that includes myself!) are more likely to get swapped. On the other hand, older players tend to have better ball control and add experience to the team. Personally, I think it's better to split up the older players between the two sides. However, it can be interesting to once in a while have younger players against older players, especially if their are several strong players on both sides. Ultimately, "stronger" or "weaker" is relative for each game. A strong player is weaker if there are a lot of even stronger players playing in that game. A weaker player is stronger if there are a lot of even weaker players playing in that game. Ultimately, even strong players should accept that if you put your name down for a game in which there are a lot of stronger players playing, then you might end up being regarded as a weaker player for that game. In the end, it doesn't matter. Everyone goes into the pot, and the team selectors have to agree on how to split the pot up. .... ... being a team selector is ... challenging, as you have to make the best of the pool of players available, taking into account their idiosyncrasies and inter-personal dynamics. .... Inter-personal dynamics include requests to be on the same side as another player. Such requests are best made on the schedule thread itself, when putting your name down, or at least before the poll is closed. Of course, the team selectors are not obliged to accommodate such requests, but I'm sure they will if they can. I don't think we need to speculate why a player is swapped. Just leave it to the good judgment of the selectors. If anyone is dissatisfied with a team selector, the simple solution is not to vote for the player next time! The team selectors must feel that there is mutual benefit in the swap. Newer players are also more likely to be swapped as their abilities and contribution to the team may be less well known. On this front, it is about newer players growing into our games, and shouldn't be seen as a reflection of his overall abilities. Growing into our games includes growing a thicker skin. My view is that swaps remain available until at least two-thirds of the way through the game, although this has very rarely been used. I think team selectors/captains find that once the game starts, it is hard to make changes. Fair enough. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Nov 30, 2012 13:22:34 GMT 8
Team selectors voted by the players down for a game agreeing on line ups has been working fairly well. .... .... A team selector poll was put up for every game this month, except: * Tuesday, 13 November 2012 (Deepavali) when we had an evening game at Turf City, which had several new or newer players, instead of the usual night game at Kallang. * Sunday, 18 November 2012, as there were several new, newer or less regular players playing. * Wednesday, 21 November 2012, as it was too late. Team selectors were elected for every game where there was a poll, except for two Tuesdays - 20 and 29 November 2012. With line ups for more games being determined by team selectors, issues have arisen, including: * Selectors not being immediately available to agree on line ups, for example, on 17 November and 19 November. * Selectors not being familiar with a significant number of players, for example, 25 November, 28 November and yesterday ( 29 November). * How hard selectors hold out for a stronger team. * Players suggesting line ups before the poll closes, or when there are insufficient votes for team selectors, for example, on 17 November and 27 November. I have previously stated as follows: .... If a player doesn't want to be considered as team selector, please indicate against your name when you put your name down, or well before the poll closes. Opting out after the poll closes spoils the process. The reason that a minimum of 2 votes each is required for team selectors is that there should be sufficient confidence in team selectors. It also requires more players to vote. .... If for whatever reason we don't have 2 team selectors for a game: * I will not suggest the line ups if I think the players are familiar enough with each other, and were capable of voting 2 team selectors, or agreeing on line ups between themselves. If no one suggests line ups before the game, then everyone turn up early and try to agree on line ups before the game starts. * If I think the players are not familiar enough with each other, I will suggest line ups. .... Not knowing the other players well enough is probably a better reason to opt out. .... With some fine-tuning, the team selector system is as follows: * Provided that places for a game are filled or almost filled, I will add the team selector poll 60 to 30 hours before the game. I believe all our regular games now has sufficient regulars who can act as team selectors. As I cannot change the poll once it is put up, my aim is to put it up 48 hours before the game, so that as many changes in personnel as possible can be taken into account, while allowing players sufficient time to vote. If the game is slow to fill up, I will try to fill it up 48 hours before the game. I will delay putting up the poll if the game does not fill up. However, if we reach the minimum number at least 24 hours before the game, I will go ahead and add the poll. * I will include in the poll all players who are registered and approved, and who have played in that game several times in the recent past. I may or may not include reserves. * Once the poll is up, I will inform the players down for that game via a WhatsApp group chat, providing a link to the poll. For those not on WhatsApp, I will do so by SMS. * If a player wishes to opt out, please indicate against your name when you put your name down, or before the poll is put up. If you wish to opt out after the poll is up, post on the schedule thread and if you're on the WhatsApp group chat, message the players there as well, and hopefully, the other players do not vote for you. Once the poll is up, I cannot remove names. * You have to be registered, approved and logged in to vote. Unless I forget, the poll is set to allow players to change their vote before the poll closes. * I set each poll to close 6 hours before the game. The two players with the most votes are the two team selectors (minimum of 2 votes each). In the event of a tie, the player who has played more games over the past 6 months will be the team selector. I will inform the WhatsApp group, and the other players by SMS. * If a team selector feels he is not familiar enough with the players, or is otherwise unable to be a team selector, he can ask any other player to be the team selector in his place, and if that other player agrees, the other player will be team selector in his place. * If there are insufficient votes, but I think the players are familiar enough with each other, I may ask the 2 players who have played the most number of games over the past 6 months to be team selectors. If the players are not familiar enough with each other, I may suggest the line ups. * I will provide the team selectors with each other's contact, so that they can discuss and agree on line ups and team colours. If they are not familiar with particular players, they can ask me about the player. The two team selectors cannot be on the same team. * The team selectors should aim to post the agreed line ups not less than 3 hours before the game. This gives them 3 hours to reach agreement. If they need more time, that's fine. If they cannot reach agreement, post on the message board and let me know that they cannot agree. The fall back may well be that players turn up early and sort out line ups before the game starts. Everyone should in any event bring both colours. * Team selectors can agree on changes to the line ups at any time up to the end of the game, so again, bring both colours. Some considerations for the team selectors: When agreeing on line ups, team selectors do need to bear in mind: * The strengths, weaknesses, and idiosyncrasies of individual players. * How the players on their team fit together. * How to best organize the team, in terms of positions, formation and tactics. .... .... ... the aim is to have evenly matched teams, not just that their own team is well balanced. .... .... I appreciate that there is some work involved in being team selector, and that is why there is a small credit provided. It's a token sum, but better than nothing right? For those voting, vote responsibly. Whether you enjoy the game may well turn on who the team selectors are. You have two votes, so use both votes, as you are likely to end up on the team of one or the other. ... The team process starts with voting for team selectors, and everything else follows from that. .... .... Hopefully, in time, more players come to realise that voting for the team selectors matters. .... I think everyone gets a better game experience if they use the system properly, .... If you have special requests, such as a colour preference or wanting to be on the same team as a particular player, indicate it against your name before the poll closes. Hopefully, the team selectors will try to accommodate your request. However, they are not obliged to. As this thread is increasingly about team selectors, I've renamed it. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Dec 18, 2012 15:18:24 GMT 8
With two team selectors elected by the other players: .... .... * I will provide the team selectors with each other's contact, so that they can discuss and agree on line ups and team colours. If they are not familiar with particular players, they can ask me about the player. The two team selectors cannot be on the same team. .... .... The method that the team selectors use to decide on the line ups is up to them. When I used to do almost all the line ups, this thread was mainly about methods of dividing up the players into two teams. We've discussed various methods on this thread, some of which are still relevant with two team selectors, including: * Each taking a turn to pick a player (alternating or 1, 2, 2, ...., 1, first proposed by Tom V in October 2008). * The "cake method", equivalent to dividing a cake between the two, with one selector dividing the players (excluding themselves) into two, and the other getting first choice as to which set is his team, first proposed by Foo Cheong in December 2011. Desmond tried out the "cake method" a couple of weeks ago - it didn't work out to well. Fortunately, the selectors were sensible and swapped players halfway through. With team selectors, and with "tactical voting", we've ended up with David T's friends against the rest a couple of times on Thursday night at Khalsa: * On 15 November 2012. * 6 December 2012. For the latter game: .... I asked a couple of players on White how the game went. One, who shall remain unnamed, had this to say: .... An old issue, previously discussed at length, on the "Team selectors & line ups" thread. .... "Tactical voting" is when you vote for one team selector whose side you want to be on and who will have you on his side, and the other team selector is the player most likely to accept what the former proposes. Voting for 2 team selectors should really be about voting for the two players who you trust to get balanced sides, and either of whose team you are prepared to end up on. Earlier on this thread: .... I accept that there are two major problems with a group of friends playing on the same team in a regular game: * Even if the players on the other team are stronger individually, the understanding between the group of friends can be an overriding factor. * Unlike for a team match, the other team doesn't have a choice of players (for example, to ensure all positions are covered), which risks the game being even more one-sided. .... Good understanding does not develop overnight. .... There is a difference between players who just want to play, and those who want to play as a team. ..... .... As I have previously stated: .... Trying to keep friends/relatives or players who are familiar with each other on the same team can distort the balance. Hopefully, as players get to know each other better, these factors will be less relevant. .... I hope that the more regularly players play, the less the need to stick together as a group of friends/relatives. .... Once a rapport builds up between regular players, do the team of 7 really need to stick together as one team? More feedback helps. And more recently, on the "Skill sets & playing positions" thread: .... The ability to develop understanding with different players is also a skill. The more instinctive understanding with players you play with regularly comes more easily, and is comfortable. For a group of friends who have been playing together for a long time, it can sometimes be difficult to come out of that comfort zone. Again, it is about adaptability. .... Anyway, those who play regularly learn to adapt. Last Thursday, we didn't get round to voting team selectors, and we only had one game at Khalsa, so I suggest a broader "Those who prefer Khalsa against Those who prefer East Coast". It just about turned out alright. We've had such unusual line ups before. Where for one reason or another, line ups end up with me, I''ll be looking out for such unusual angles. Makes a change from the routine. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jan 11, 2013 11:47:11 GMT 8
Team selectors for a game frequently say they're not familiar with all the players down for that game. This is especially so with players increasingly crossing over from one venue to another, players bringing guests, or players bringing returning after a long interval. From the report thread for last Saturday's game: .... Rajiv, maybe we need a brief description of the new players so that the selectors can have an idea of how good/fit the new player is? However, I'm far less likely to be familiar with new or newer players than those who play that particular game. On the other hand, players don't always remember players they've played with only once or twice before. .... .... With so many coming and goings it's hard to remember someone from one game, although I recognised their faces when pitch side I still couldn't recall what type of player they were, that comes after playing a few times. .... For new or newer players, what I can provide are the following: * The previous occasions a newer player has played with us. * The name of the introducer. * Adding new or newer player to the WhatsApp group chat for the forthcoming game. Team selectors may have to do some amount of "due diligence", such as: * Going back to read old reports for games in which the new player played. * Asking others who played in that game their opinion of that player. * Asking the introducer about the player. * Asking the player himself about his abilities. Being on WhatsApp is an advantage in carrying out any "due diligence". Also, there is often some feedback on the WhatsApp group chat if other players feel the line ups are not balanced. I need to consider limiting team selectors to those who are on WhatsApp. Popular team selectors such as Desmond may end up no longer be included in the team selector poll if they are not on WhatsApp. Also: .... ..., to increase the likelihood that the team selectors are familiar with the players down for the game, I may need to increase the restrictions on new players in the new year .... .... To reduce the number of new players, especially in more popular games, I am inclined to disallow guests in the first 48 hours after the schedule thread is put up. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Mar 1, 2013 10:46:44 GMT 8
An increasing number of those who play on Sunday are opting out as team selectors. I think those who play at the weekends generally find it a hassle to be team selectors. On the basis that it is trickier to agree on teams with 16 players rather than 14 players, with effect from this weekend, I'll increase the team selector credit for 8-a-side games to $3 each. As far as opting out is concerned, players who want to opt out have to do so each time they put their name down for a game. I can't be dealing with standing instructions to opt out. If I accept standing instructions to opt out from one, then I will have to do so from others, and it becomes my burden to remember who has opted out and who hasn't. It is easier for each player to opt out each time. Just indicate "(NAATS)" after your name if you find typing "Not available as team selector" too much of a hassle. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Mar 31, 2013 17:12:56 GMT 8
.... * If a player wishes to opt out, please indicate against your name when you put your name down, or before the poll is put up. If you wish to opt out after the poll is up, post on the schedule thread and if you're on the WhatsApp group chat, message the players there as well, and hopefully, the other players do not vote for you. Once the poll is up, I cannot remove names. .... * If a team selector feels he is not familiar enough with the players, or is otherwise unable to be a team selector, he can ask any other player to be the team selector in his place, and if that other player agrees, the other player will be team selector in his place. .... For the game yesterday (Saturday) at Turf City, Brendan SMSed me at about 9.30 am (about an hour and a half before the poll was due to close) to say he could not be team selector as he was moving to his new place. At that stage, he was second with 5 votes. Lynz was third with 3 votes. .... Those who voted for [Brendan] may wish to change their vote. I'll extend the voting until noon. I also posted the same on the WhatsApp group chat. However: Xiong Wei is one team selector. His first time. No change in the voting, so Brendan is still second despite being unavailable. He can either agree with another player to take over from him, or the player with the next highest vote, Lynz, can be team selector. Earlier, CH proposed on the WhatsApp group chat that it be the player with the next highest votes, so let's go with that. .... If a player is unable to be team selector, he should indicate it against his name when he puts his name down, or as soon as he knows, before the poll is put up. If matters arise after the poll is up but before the poll closes, or soon after the poll closes, such that a player is unable to be team selector, post on the message board, or on the WhatsApp group chat, or message me. Players who voted for that player have an opportunity to change their vote. I will extend the voting for an hour or two, so that there is at least 2 hours to do so. If the player is still first or second in the poll, then he should at first instance ask one of the other players to take over from him. If he doesn't do so, or no one agrees to take over from him, then the player with the next highest number of votes (minimum 2) will be team selector in his place. If there is no other player with sufficient votes, then the replacement will be the next available player with the most number of games over the current 6 month period. If one of the team selectors finds he is unable to act well after the poll is closes, then instead of extending the poll, we'll go straight to finding a replacement, as set out above. Again, if players wish to opt out, they should do so before the poll is put up. Opting out after the poll is up should be exceptional, and should be for matters that were not expected, and will prevent them from selecting their team between the time the poll closes until one or two hours before the game, as line ups can be put up as late as an hour before the game. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Apr 28, 2013 15:13:13 GMT 8
I have said that, if the game is mainly regulars, and full or at least has the minimum number: * I put the team selector poll up 60 to 30 hours before the game. * The poll closes 6 hours before the game. * The aim is to have the line ups up at least 4 hours before he game, but as late as an hour before. However, I have been putting the poll up not more than 36 hours before the game to allow for changes in personnel. I have often put it up 24 hours before the game, and as late as 18 hours before the game. However, as the poll still closes 6 hours before the game, this reduces the voting time. If there are no team selectors, I suggest the line ups 6 to 4 hours before the game without colours, and then confirm the line ups with colours one or two hours later, by 5 or 6 pm. I also suggest team captains - usually, a regular who is familiar with that game. I often base it on the number of games played over the current 6 month period. If we are short of players, or stuck with uneven numbers, the process is delayed until we have enough, and even numbers. The poll closes at 3 pm on weekdays, when players are likely to be busy at work. For the weekend, the poll closes at 11 am, when players are likely to be still asleep after a late night out on Friday or Saturday (for those who are single), or out with the family (for those with families). Also, if there are withdrawals less than 6 hours before the game, team selectors have to do more work to take into account the withdrawal and any replacement. To allow more time for the personnel to settle, for the games in May 2013 onwards, I will put up the team selector poll 36 to 12 hours before the game. To allow more time to vote, and so that the poll closes at a more convenient time, with less risk of team selectors having to do extra work due to withdrawals, for the games in May 2013 onwards, I will close the poll 4 hours before the game. Team selectors still have more than 2 hours to finalise line ups at least an hour before the game. If there are no team selectors, I will continue to suggest line ups without colours 6 to 5 hours before the game, and finalise the line ups and colours 4 to 3 hours before the game. As always, if we are short of players, or stuck with uneven numbers, the process is delayed until we have enough, and even numbers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Jun 9, 2013 17:50:25 GMT 8
.... When I have the team selector poll, the idea is to vote for two players, either of whose team you would be happy to be on. .... If in suggesting two team selectors, the idea is that you want to be on the same team as one, and you think the other will go along with that and not have you on his team, it kind of goes against the spirit of how we play. .... In the end, I don't know why players vote for any particular player, but you do get a better game if you vote for two players either of whom you would be happy to have as your team selector/captain. I think this has been the case for the Saturday game at The Grandstand, which for some time now has had line ups decided on by two elected team selectors. If there is no poll because the game filled up late, or I think the players are not all sufficiently familiar with each other, or there are insufficient votes, I suggest line ups. When I suggest line ups, I also usually suggest a captain for each team. I consider various factors, including how regular the player is across all our games, how regular the player is for that particular game, and how experienced the player is (age being a factor). |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Oct 31, 2013 20:15:13 GMT 8
The team selector poll, first introduced in February 2012, provides for 2 of the more experienced players to agree on line ups. All approved players can vote in the poll, and the two players elected as team selectors take charge of each of the two teams. .... To allow more time for the personnel to settle, for the games in May 2013 onwards, I will put up the team selector poll 36 to 12 hours before the game. To allow more time to vote, and so that the poll closes at a more convenient time, with less risk of team selectors having to do extra work due to withdrawals, for the games in May 2013 onwards, I will close the poll 4 hours before the game. Team selectors still have more than 2 hours to finalise line ups at least an hour before the game. If there are no team selectors, I will continue to suggest line ups without colours 6 to 5 hours before the game, and finalise the line ups and colours 4 to 3 hours before the game. As always, if we are short of players, or stuck with uneven numbers, the process is delayed until we have enough, and even numbers. Where for one reason or another, there hasn't been a team selector poll, I have on occasion suggested two players as team selectors. The criteria has been one or more of the following: * Most number of games in the current 6-month period. * Most number of games since I first started keeping playing records in January 2009. * Several of the players down for the game were introduced by a player, or by other players introduced by the player. More likely, in that situation, I will suggest the line ups and suggest captains for each team based on the above criteria. Also, where there are insufficient votes for team selectors, any player with 1 vote will be appointed captain. The minimum number of votes for team selectors is 2. Team selectors agreeing on line ups works best where the players are largely regulars. With a few exceptions, this has been the case with the Saturday game at The Grandstand since early on. The Monday game at East Coast has often had team selectors deciding on line ups. Recently, the Sunday game at The Grandstand has also had team selectors. The criteria for a result to be included in the team selectors table has been relaxed as follows: .... * The team selectors were elected and agreed on the line ups. * The players playing in the particular game are largely regulars. .... Over the past week, for the first time, we had team selectors agreeing on line ups for four games in a row: * Thursday at Khalsa* Saturday at The Grandstand* Sunday at The Grandstand* Monday at East CoastIf I'm not mistaken, the Thursday game was the first Khalsa game where team selectors were elected and agreed on line ups. It helped that there were several regulars from Monday at East Coast playing. A team selector poll was added for the Tuesday game at Kallang, but there were insufficient votes. The Kallang and Khalsa games on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday also suffer from a relatively high turnover of players, which makes it difficult to have team selectors, or for team selectors to agree. Where I decide on line ups, I also have to decide on team captains. My various criteria for choosing captains may not always be suitable. From next month onwards, even if a game is not suitable for a team selector poll, and I will be doing the line ups, I aim to include a team captain poll. There will be no minimum number of votes for team captains. In the event of a tie, the player with more games in the current 6-month period will be elected, as is the case with the team selector poll. Players who opt out from the team selector poll indicate as such against their name. As the roles are different, if they also do not want to be considered for team captains, they should expressly opt out from that as well. Team selectors decide on line ups. Team captains organize the teams on the pitch. Team selectors are automatically team captains unless they ask someone else to on their team to be captain. Some players don't want to be team selectors because they don't have the time before the game, but don't mind being team captains during the game. Some players don't want the responsibility, either before the game or during the game. .... .... Just indicate "(NAATS)" after your name if you find typing "Not available as team selector" too much of a hassle. That will now have to be "Not available as selector/captain" or "NAASC" if they don't want to be considered for either team selector or captain. If, after the team selector poll closes, the team selectors feel they are not sufficiently familiar with the players to agree on line ups, they can let me know, and I will suggest the line ups. The team selectors will remain as captains. |
|
|
|
Post by Foo Cheong on Nov 1, 2013 9:39:43 GMT 8
So we are going continental style. Team selector is like Director of Football whose job is to do horse-trading of players. Team captain is the Manager, whose job is to coax the best out of the players at his resources and organise tactics.
Could become interesting when Selector and Captain are not the same person. Selector blames Captain for not having tactical nous, Captain blames Selector for a poor choice of players... Looking forward to the match reports and post-mortem. ;D
And do you need to add a new Team Captains table to the Team Selectors table?
|
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Nov 1, 2013 10:29:20 GMT 8
Actually, it's not very different from what we have now. Currently, team selectors agree on line ups, and are automatically team captains, unless they ask someone else to be team captain, but no team selector ever does. As the team selectors have two roles, their credits are higher. Currently, where I do the line ups, I suggest team captains based on various criteria. I currently exclude anyone who has opted out as team selector. The real change is that instead of my suggesting team captains, I aim to allow team captains to be elected as well. Although team captains can make changes to the line ups, they seldom do. Also, I will not exclude those who opt out as team selector unless they opt out as team captain as well. As team captains don't have as much of a say in the line ups, I won't be adding a separate team captains table. I'll stick with the current team selectors table. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Nov 16, 2013 10:04:03 GMT 8
To summarize: * If the players for a game are largely regulars, I will add a team selector poll with the regulars who have been playing regularly, but exclude anyone who has expressly opted out for that specific game. To opt out, indicate that you are opting out against your name on the schedule thread. The two elected team selectors will have to agree on line ups. Unless they ask another player on their team to be captain, they will be captains as well. * If there are a lot of new or newer players, I won't add a team selector poll, but I may add a team captain poll limited to regulars. I will suggest line ups on the message board. If two captains are elected, they will each captain one team. If no captains are elected, I will suggest captains based on one or more of the following criteria: .... * Most number of games in the current 6-month period. * Most number of games since I first started keeping playing records in January 2009. * Several of the players down for the game were introduced by a player, or by other players introduced by the player. .... If a player doesn't want to be considered for the role of captain, he has to expressly opt out for that game, in the same way that he would opt out as team selector, by indicating it against his name on the schedule thread. Since the start of the month, I've been more proactive in helping team selectors: * If both team selectors are on WhatsApp, I will create a separate WhatsApp group chat for the 2 team selectors. * If a team selector says he is not familiar with a particular player, I will say what I know about the player (if anything), or refer them to other players who may know more about the player, or the player himself. * If either team selector says he is not sufficiently familiar with the players, I may suggest line ups to the two team selectors. However, it is still up to them to agree or agree on changes. If, after creating the separate group chat, the 2 team selectors want to discuss line ups in private, I will leave the group chat. The real difference between having team selectors and just team captains is that in the former, I think the players are sufficiently familiar with each other for two of them to make the final call on line ups, while for the latter, I accept that the players are not sufficiently familiar with each other for any two of them to make the final call. .... There is a ongoing learning process. There will always be players with whom the selectors are not familiar with, so there will always be some amount of guesswork involved. I will help where I can, and from experience, I am probably better at fitting in new or newer players, but because I am not rarely at the games these days, the team selectors are probably better at assessing the regulars. That's why team selectors are only used where the players are largely regulars. If, at the game itself, it is clear that the line ups are one-sided, changes should be made, and as I am not at the games, this has to be taken on by the selectors/captains, but inertia, pride and not wanting to offend anyone are factors that get in the way. The way to look at it is this - there is a mixture of abilities within games and across games. A good player in one game may find himself as a weak player in another game. The real issue is not whether a player is weaker or stronger, but what changes are needed to achieve balanced line ups. No one enjoys a one-sided game (whether they be on the winning side or the losing side), so where the line ups are so clearly one-sided that the losing side lose heart early on, the selectors/captains just have to bite the bullet and make the changes. To give the team selectors more time, from today onwards, I will close the poll half an hour earlier, that is, 4.5 hours before the game. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Feb 6, 2014 22:07:46 GMT 8
.... ..., I've broken the GIFFA System post up into sections. .... .... The version as at 5 December 2012 is set out on the "GIFFA-defined & other men's games" thread. There had been some modifications since then, but this is the first major revision since then. Reference to the team selector poll was added earlier, but I have now greatly expanded upon that. The section on "Team selectors/captains & line ups" now reads: Team selectors/captains & line ups36 hours or less before the game, after the places are filled or at least the minimum number required is reached, I will usually put up a poll for team selectors. I will include in the poll all approved players who have played a minimum number of games in total (records since January 2009), or in the current 6 month period, and who have not expressly opted out as team selector in the schedule thread. Opting out is usually expressed by placing as "NAATS" (not available as team selector) after your name on the schedule thread. The minimum number of games will vary between 15 and 40, depending on the range of experience of the players down for the game. The poll will usually close 4.5 hours before the game but may be extended if other circumstances cause delay. The two players with the most number of votes (subject to a minimum of 2 votes each) will be team selectors. In the event of a tie, the player who has played more games in the current 6 month period will be elected. The two team selectors must be on separate teams, and agree on how the remaining players are to be divided between the two teams so as to have two evenly-matched teams. They also agree on which team will be White, and which will be Red. If the players for the game include a lot of newer or less regular players, or players who haven't played together before much or at all, instead of a team selector poll, I may put up a team captain poll. All approved players who have played the minimum number of games in total will be included in the team captain poll, even if they had opted out as team selectors, unless they expressly opt out as team captain as well. With team captains, I will suggest line ups after the poll closes, with the two players with the most votes being captain of each of the two teams. There is no minimum number of votes for team captains. Team captains can agree on changes, and on team colours (white or red). In the event that there is no poll or insufficient votes in a poll, unless there is a reason to choose two other players, the two players with the most number of games in the current 6 month period, or in total, will be captain. Several of the other players in the game having been brought in by a player or other players he introduced is one such reason. Where there are a lot of new or newer players, and there are two such players, I may suggest them as team selectors instead of just team captains. Line ups and team colours are posted on the schedule thread before the game. One team is white and the other red. Players should bring both colours. Team selectors/captains can agree on changes at any time, up to and even during the game. Team selectors/captains earn credits, as set out below. Each team selector/captain represents the other players on his team, and is entrusted to exercise objective judgment in assessing and deciding on line ups. Players should vote wisely in the team selector/captain poll, as each player will end up on the team of one of the two team selectors/captains. There is a separate thread setting out "Guidelines On Team Selection, Team Organization & Game Play" for team selectors/captains. The first two parts of the separate thread are as follows: Team selectionThe factors to be taken into account in deciding line ups is discussed in detail on the "Team selectors/captains & line ups" thread. I have summarized the considerations here:
- The aim is to have two evenly matched teams, with each team selector in charge of one team.
- It is useful to know the players, including their strengths, weaknesses, and idiosyncrasies, including which players combine well together, or don't play well together. The information for new or newer players will necessarily be limited. I will provide what information I can, including links to reports on games that the player in question has previously played in, and referring the team selector to that player's introducer, or other players who have played with that player before. Players are encouraged to disclose any relevant factors about themselves, especially any factors, such as previous or recurring injuries, earlier physical exertions, or loss of fitness, which may affect their form on the day.
- It is more important for both teams to have a similar balance of stronger and weaker players, then for each team to have a similar balance of attacking and defensive players. Players need to be adaptable. We are not highly trained professionals, who can only play in one position. Even highly paid professionals can be required to to play in unfamiliar positions. "Stronger" and "weaker" is relative to the pool of players for a particular game. A stronger player in one game may be a weaker player in another game. It is also more important to know if a player prefers to be on the left, right or down the middle.
- It is useful to keep new or newer players with their introducer unless either expressly states it is not necessary. As I expect new and newer players will feel more comfortable being on the same team as their introducer, it is about being welcoming of new and newer players, and being accommodating. Matching the two teams can usually be achieved by how the remaining players are divided. Some players may feel they are new only for their first one or two games. Others may not want to be separated from their introducer until they have played 50 or more games!
- In practice, it is impossible to have perfectly even teams. One team may well be perceived as weaker or stronger. Ultimately, the aim is to keep the difference as marginal as possible or to reduce the difference as much as possible, so as not to detract from a closely contested or competitive game. Our games have players of mixed abilities. Provided players meet our minimum standards, the players in each game may have a wide range of skills and abilities. Evenness is best achieved by both teams having a similar blend of stronger and weaker players.
- If one or both teams are built around a group of friends, the remaining players should be split between the two teams in such a way as to make the teams as evenly matched as possible. It should be borne in mind that a team with players who are very familiar with each other or complement each other is likely to have a strength over and above their individual strengths. If is not possible to make the two teams fairly even, then it is advisable not to use such groups of friends as the basis for the two teams.
It has become a common practice for one team selector to suggest the line ups, and for the other to either agree or suggest changes. The aim is to reach a consensus. If the team selectors find themselves unable to agree, they should take turns to pick players, in the following order: - Selector A picks 1.
- Selector B picks 2 and 3.
- Selector A picks 4 and 5.
- Selector B picks 6 and 7.
- [continue until all players have been picked]
The team selectors can then try to agree on any changes. If they can't agree on any changes, then they stick with their selections. One team selector should not merely concede to the other team selector's requests merely to cut the process short or to avoid disagreement. Each team selector represents the other players on his team, and is entrusted to exercise objective judgment in assessing and deciding on line ups. I will not express any views on the proposed line ups if I think the two team selectors are sufficiently familiar with the bulk of the players. If I accept that either or both team selectors are not sufficiently familiar with several of the players, I may suggest line ups to the two team selectors, and they can either accept my suggestion or make changes. The whole process should not take more than half an hour. If the two team selectors find themselves unable to agree after more than half an hour of discussions, I suggest they each put their last proposal to me, and I will say which of the two appears fairer to me. When the line ups are finalized, the team selectors should also agree on colours, one team is red and the other is white. If there are changes in personnel before the game commences, for example, due to a late replacement, or two additional players joining the game to take us from the minimum number to the maximum number, team selectors need to consider whether to make any changes in the line ups. It is therefore essential that all players bring both colours. I will cover the third part of the thread under "Team organization, formations & tactics". I've inserted "/captains" in the name of this thread so that it matches the corresponding section of the GIFFA System thread. |
|
|
|
Post by Rajiv on Feb 20, 2014 10:35:41 GMT 8
I have reduced the time before the game that the team selector/captain poll goes up from 36 to 30 hours. This allows more time for withdrawals and players to opt out as team selectors/captains before the poll goes up. I have also added the following passages to the "Team selectors/captains & line ups" section of the "GIFFA System" thread: .... If a player wishes to opt out as team selector or team captain, he should indicate it against his name, either when putting his name down for the game, or as soon as possible thereafter but no less than 30 hours before the game (that is, before the team selector/captain poll is due to go up) by posting on the same thread. It is very disruptive to opt out less than 30 hours before the game. The following acronyms will suffice:
- NAATS, NATS, NTS: Not available as team selector.
- NAATSC, NATSC, NTSC: Not available as team selector or captain.
.... If there are considerations such as form, fitness, choice of colour or combination of players that a player wishes the team selectors to take into account in the line ups, he should indicate as such against his name, or post on the same thread or message the WhatsApp group chat no less than 4.5 hours before the game (when the team selector/captain poll is due to close). However, team selectors have the final say on line ups. .... Basically, there are two cut-off times built into the team selector/captain poll: - 30 hours before the game, by which time all the information I need before putting up the team selector/captain poll (and the payment information) should be provided.
- 4.5 hours before the game, by which time all the information the team selectors/captains need should be provided.
Several regular players opt out as team selectors because they may be busy at the time the poll closes (4.30 pm on weekdays, when they may be rushing out matters or at meetings, or 12.30 pm on weekends, when they may be having lunch with family). However, the team selectors do not need to get round to doing line ups immediately. All they really need to do is arrange a mutually convenient time with the other team selector to discuss and agree on line ups. This may be as late as an hour before the game, so effectively, team selectors have from 4.30 pm to 8 pm on weekdays, and 12.30 pm to 4 pm, to do the line ups. I have added the following to the "Guidelines on Team Selection, Organization & Game Play" thread: .... As they may be otherwise engaged at the time, team selectors do not need to discuss and agree on line ups immediately upon being confirmed. At first instance, they can agree on a mutually convenient time to do so. This can be any time up to one hour before the game. As it will still take some time for team selectors to agree on line ups, I have added the following to the "Team selectors/captains & line ups section of the "GIFFA System" thread, after "Line ups and team colours are posted on the schedule thread before the game.": .... .... They may be posted as late as half an hour before the game. .... .... Team selectors play an important role in determining the quality of each game. |
|
....
