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Post by Yip Weng on Jan 10, 2012 23:17:58 GMT 8
Altho i am 35, my left knee has no meniscus, it is bone on bone & rheumatism is coming. My ACL on the same knee also is reconstructed. I get puffy knee on the following day after every game, hence my thorough pre-game warm up limbering ritual.(u will notice i always come 1 hour early to stretch and warm up) When the water in my puffy knee wont go away and i stop for too long, it becomes very difficult to make a comeback once i lose my stamina and get weight gain. Every comeback to football becomes more difficult nowadays
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 13, 2012 11:12:46 GMT 8
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 23, 2012 0:07:58 GMT 8
.... If a player is injured or unwell, he should know more than 6 hours before the game. Don't leave your name in in the hope you'll feel better. Withdraw early, and if you feel better, and the place is still available, put your name back in at that stage. .... The better option would of course be to get rest. |
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 23, 2012 10:44:06 GMT 8
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 24, 2012 13:15:55 GMT 8
Nordin was wearing what appeared to be studs at Sunday's game. I had a closer look, and they were small rubberized ones. I'm more concerned about plastic: i actually got a hard plastic soccer boot on my shin from one of the 2 reds player wearing them. it was no intention at all and i am not particularly bothered by it. what i think should be absolutetely banned is sliding. that can lead to more than a swollen shin... .... .... That's the thing about use of cheap plastic in sports equipment - easy to manufacture and sell, but not so good to use, especially for a physical contact sport. And of course, no sliding tackles. |
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Post by Foo Cheong on Jan 24, 2012 20:04:45 GMT 8
I have to disagree. I saw Nordin's boots today from a distance. Unless he changed them from what you saw, they look like regular studs to me. The issue is not whether the studs are rubber or plastic. If the studs are strong enough to support a man up to 100kg? and above, they are strong enough to inflict serious injury. When a person wearing studs crash into your shins, or stepped onto your toes, what matters is the force per square inch. Boots with studs generally have 13 studs, so the force per stud is higher compared with blades or turf shoes. Would the force of rubber studs be much, much lower than the force of plastic studs? Would the rubber studs crumble on impact? I have a pair of Adidas Questra. It is multi-ground and so, according to the manufacturer, it can be used for indoor soccer. It has 22 studs per boot, and the studs are shorter, so the force is distributed over more studs and hence is less dangerous. Can I use this argument to justify wearing them? I understand the difficulty especially when there are hybrid boots around, but it would be easier to make a rule rather than make exceptions: Noordin can wear studs ços they are rubber, Stan D Man can wear blades because he promised to be careful, Foo Cheong can wear studs ços they are multi-ground and there are 22 studs per boot etc. A simple rule: no studs, no blades, no exception. Sorry to make an argument out of this. Attachments:
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 25, 2012 17:52:23 GMT 8
Also today: Can someone remind Stan d man to get a pair of futsol shoe . I have got stepped by him several times and it's no joke when his weight is on your toes . We are all adults here , when no Boots are allowed , that is period .... Foo Cheong, the rule currently provide: .... * Please use suitable footwear for our games. All our games are on astro pitch. [red] Studs are not allowed. Blades are also not suitable.[/red] If you do not already have one, please get a pair of astro shoes with rubber-pimpled soles as soon as possible. In the meantime, on the covered pitch at Turf City, runners/trainers suffice. .... However, unless we define "studs" and "blades" by height, length, width, number, distribution, material etc, there will always be debate. I take a purposive approach towards rules. As far as footwear is concerned, the safety concern relates to three factors: * The surface area that comes into contact with the opponent. The lesser the surface area of the sole of the shoe that comes into contact with the ground, the greater the risk, as the pressure and impact are likely to be greater. The surface area in turn depends on the number of protrusions, and the base area of the protrusions. * The hardness of the protrusions. The harder the material used, the greater the impact on an opponent. The more elastic the protrusions, some of the impact is borne by the elasticity. * The shape, length and distribution of the protrusions. Longer protrusions closer the the edges of the sole increase the risk of turning an ankle. Unusual shapes increase the risk of the sole getting caught on the turf, and any force being borne by the ankle. Therefore, we have to look at two broad factors - the shape/size/distribution of the protrustions, and the material they are made from. Everyone should have a pair of astro shoes for our games. However, there are a lot of hybrids out on the market, and new shoes are being developed all the time, some of which may be acceptable and some of which may not. When you earlier asked about two pairs of shoes that you bought, the exchange was as follows: I also have a pair of Nike Tiempo turf shoes. Studs-wise, it is about the same as the Adidas Questra, except that the studs are shorter and more. .... .... Probably better, as the pressure exerted by any one stud is less, so less pain to the other player if you step on his foot. .... It's also better if the sole is rubber. Plastic soles cause more pain. With all the hybrid materials and designs available, it will become increasingly difficult to determine what is allowable or not. General rule is, the footwear shouldn't cause injury, and should cause minimal pain, if you step on another player's foot with it on. I'm always going to take a practical approach. The better way to bring players in line is to engage them in discussion. It has worked before. If a player turns up for a game with footwear that is clearly unacceptable, and no alternative foowear is available, then if the majority playing that game feel that the risk is too great, they can ask the player to sit out the game, and if no other player is available in the vicinity, the game can proceed with modified rules for one team being a player short. Sooner or later, I will have to address manufacturers and retailers. Players who play both on grass and astro turf are being sold footwear that is unsuitable for one or both as being suitable for both. I am prepared to raise the issue directly with major manufacturers and retailers. How many of you are prepared to back me on this? As for Stan, I've referred him to this thread, and will speak to him at tonight's game. As for switching from acceptable footwear to unacceptable footwear: .... ... otherwise I see no reason why I should not be wearing boots too . As I have said before: .... This is not a solution. The response to others breaching rules is to bring the specific breach to my attention (as above), not to threaten to breach the rules yourself. The same rules apply to you, and if other players do their part, and bring any breach by you to my attention, then the consequences fall on you. |
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Post by Raj Singh on Jan 25, 2012 21:05:29 GMT 8
Hi Rajiv , So what is the solution when this issue has been addressed for the longest time and yet we have ppl wearing boots . I believe in equal treatment therefore if one still wears boots and nothing is done , i see no reason why i should be penalized for wearing boots. Cause my reason wearing boots would be for safety , at least my toes won't hurt that bad .
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 25, 2012 23:43:32 GMT 8
I understand Stan has already changed his footwear for our games. Again, communication and discussion are effective. In order for me to address the matter with a player, the name of the player needs to be brought to my attention. I will raise the matter with the player, and if necessary, attend a game in which he is playing to have a look at the footwear. If I think the pair he is using is unsuitable, I will ask him to get a suitable pair as soon as possible. I will give the player a reasonable amount of time to do so. If he doesn't do so even after a reasonable amount of time, I will remind him once or twice. If he continues to ignore my request, I will block him from playing for a period of time, at least until he gets a suitable pair. For the period he continues to play without a suitable pair, the onus is on him to exercise greater care. If every incident in which he catches another player with his blades/studs is reported on the report thread, I will collate them and bring them to his attention. In such cases, I will in all likelihood reduce the amount of time he is allowed to get a suitable pair before I block him. I am more likely to give leeway if the sole is rubberized, not hard plastic. If having looked at the footwear, I think it is borderline, I may still request the player to get a pair of astro shoes the next time he needs to buy new footwear. In the meantime, the player should of course exercise greater care. If those who play in the same game as that player disagree that the pair is suitable, they are still at liberty to post on the report thread any incident during the game where another player was hurt by that player's footwear, and I will take those incidents into account in reviewing the matter. It is only recently that I have had the names of players still using boots with plastic studs/blades, and already we have got them to change their footwear. Of course, any other player at the same game can simply try talking to the player concerned.
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 26, 2012 17:59:53 GMT 8
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Post by Raj Singh on Jan 29, 2012 9:08:20 GMT 8
. Hi Rajiv maybe your understanding was wrong . I suggest you remind him again before others gets injured . |
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 30, 2012 8:13:38 GMT 8
I had a look at Stanley's footwear yesterday. While at first glance, they looked like plastic studs, on closer inspection, I noticed they they were made of a softer plastic. I explained to him the concerns with studs, especially of several Turf City regulars. He said he was always very careful. I told him that if he is going to continue using those, it might be better to avoid Turf City games. He said his weekend league starts again next week, so he'll be won't be playing at Turf City for a while. He believed the incident was more a clash of feet than Rockstar being caught by the studs. A clash of feet can cause injury, regardless of the footwear. Manufacturers do seem to have taken on board the risk of studs/blades by using softer materials to make them. .... ..., we have to look at two broad factors - the shape/size/distribution of the protrustions, and the material they are made from. Everyone should have a pair of astro shoes for our games. However, there are a lot of hybrids out on the market, and new shoes are being developed all the time, some of which may be acceptable and some of which may not. .... The prohibition is now against hard studs and blades. Those made from softer materials will have to be reviewed on a case by case basis, when a complaint is made.
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 31, 2012 13:34:19 GMT 8
Some of our games, especially the popular ones with a lot of regulars playing, are robust, sometimes too robust. A reminder that we are not only responsible for our own well-being, we are responsible for the well-being of those we play with. Further, overly robust tackles not only risk injury to other players, there are many examples of the player making the tackle being injured. Play intelligently - cover more ground with passing and moving into space, which improves fitness, and cut down on the overly robust tackles, which risks injury and having to lay off for periods of time, which is counter-productive. |
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 31, 2012 14:03:24 GMT 8
If the aim of our games is fitness: A physical contact sport like football will always carry some risk of injury. However, everyone needs to take reasonable care to reduce the risk. Risking injury through carelessness or recklessness, or a style of play that increases the risk of injury, is not smart. And as the "legendary" Andy M once said: Pass and move is still the best way for our games to be played. I've renamed the thread "Sustainability", as it covers health and fitness, as well as reducing the risk of and dealing with illness and injuries. |
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Post by Rajiv on Feb 10, 2012 15:21:46 GMT 8
Footwear keeps coming up as an issue, the latest on the "Weekend Turf City v Weeknight East Coast" thread: .... The prohibition is now against hard studs and blades. Those made from softer materials will have to be reviewed on a case by case basis, when a complaint is made. .... Or when a post raises the issue. There is enough on the Safety thread about the injuries resulting from being caught by studs and blades. It is also an issue at East Coast. .... The issue has been raised by Carl, Jon L and Mark T, all East Coast regulars at one time or another. We've largely cut out sliding tackles, and are moving more broadly towards safer footwear. More generally, we need to cut out all reckless and dangerous play. For example: .... .... * There are several players who tend to run with their arms out. It tends to be used more to shield themselves from tackles than for balance, and it increases the risk of catching opponents with their arms of elbows. I think we need to start cutting down on this. .... Sticking out your arms when running (to shield yourself more so than to maintain balance, unless you're a ballerina!) or leaping (for leverage) risks catching others with your arms or elbows. It's something the top professionals have been doing for some time, and are not always punished for, but there's no need for any of that in our games, played within a more confined space. When you hold your arms out to shield yourself from tackles, you're bound to use some amount of force, and risk catching an opponent with your outstretched hand, arm, or elbow. The use of arms and hands generally. From a post on "Playing Styles & Foul Play" on the old blog: Again, we don't need to shoulder charge in our games, played within confined spaces. Keep in mind the bigger picture: .... Why risk causing injury to your opponents? And if too many players are out injured, or put off playing by the risk of injury, games get cancelled due to insufficient players. Everyone loses in the end. .... I keep repeating - we are not only responsible for our own well-being, we are responsible for the well-being of those we play with. Further, overly robust tackles not only risk injury to other players, there are many examples of the player making the tackle being injured. Also: .... There is a temptation to go in harder on a player who is showboating, but the better response is to take the ball cleanly off the player. Sometimes, it means standing off for a short while, and focusing on the ball, rather than the feints that a showboater is prone to. .... .... A physical contact sport like football will always carry some risk of injury. However, everyone needs to take reasonable care to reduce the risk. Risking injury through carelessness or recklessness, or a style of play that increases the risk of injury, is not smart. .... |
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Post by Rajiv on Feb 16, 2012 0:11:32 GMT 8
There have been a few accidents of late, with players being over-enthusiastic or overly vigorous in challenging for the ball. There is an update on Elvin's injury here. I understand it was an accident, and unfortunately, one of our newer players who made the challenge. Newer players can take a bit of time to get the true sense of our games. For example, when Dan B first played with us back in September 2009, in the course of the game, his leg got entangled with Shankar's leg. Shankar had old knee and ankle injuries, so when Dan B pulled his leg away, it caused damage to Shankar's knee ligament and ankle tendon. At the time, Shankar was advised that he would be out for at least 3 months. Shankar was one of the most regular players before then. However, Shankar has not played with us since. When Shankar spoke to me at time of the injury, he felt that Dan should not have pulled his leg out of the entanglement so vigorously. Dan B is now one of our more regular and reliable players. Subsequently, there was also a bad injury to Ian D in May 2010, resulting from an challenge. It's unfortunate that players can be overly enthusiastic and vigorous in their first few games, but how else are newer players going to get a true sense of our games other than by playing with us regularly? In any event, as evident from the latest accident last Sunday (12 February 2012), even our older, regular players can sometimes be overly enthusiastic and vigorous in the challenge. I just need to keep reminding everyone that during a game, they are responsible not just for their own well-being, but for the well-being of the other players in the game as well. .... I don't think we need to hold back from 50/50 challenges, but it is important to make sure you win the ball, and not take out the opposing player by accident. Even if it is an accident, it will often be because the player making the challenge was careless, if not reckless. Everyone has to make greater effort to avoid being either careless or reckless, and especially avoid making reckless tackles. We should constantly remind ourselves that this is a single community, and a player who is on the opposing side one week could be your team mate the next week. Any player who regularly commits reckless tackles is not playing in the right spirit. And, as I've said before, everyone should seriously consider a personal accident insurance policy. .... Fortunately, Elvin is covered by insurance. .... .... And as stated on the "Sustainability" page on the old blog: It doesn't apply to carelessness, but we should all aim to be more careful. |
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Post by Fred on Feb 17, 2012 17:58:22 GMT 8
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Post by Rajiv on Feb 17, 2012 22:59:05 GMT 8
Thanks Fred. The articles appear to date back to 2001/2004. The risks relating to blades have been repeatedly raised on the old blog, and this thread, since August 2008. I've looked at ESPZen's rules on footwear for their futsal leagues. Images of what types of footwear are allowed and what are not allowed also appear on the ESPZen page. It's taken a while, but manufacturers have taken on board the earlier criticism of blades, by changing the design and the material, and by creating hybrids. The ESPZen rule will also apply to all games at Turf City and Kallang (as the pitches are covered). As for Khalsa, which is uncovered: Like at Khalsa, the pitch at East Coast is uncovered. Sunday's game between the Turf City regulars and the East Coast regulars has been cancelled because of disagreement over footwear, despite my suggesting that, in the same way we would have a referee as a one-off, blades be allowed as a one-off. Several of the East Coast regulars disagreed that blades should be disallowed, while several Turf City regulars insited the no blades rule be enforced. What is very disappointing is that several players at both Khalsa (before the above change) and East Coast have simply ignored the rules, rather than engaging in a discussion on this thread as to why they think blades are preferable to all-weather astro shoes, despite the safety concerns, and despite the issue being repeatedly highlighted under the Playing Rules & Principles, and the monthly e-mail Updates. Safety concerns have been raised for East Coast as well, and it is more widespread than some of the regulars believe. Unfortunately, by not engaging in a proper discussion, several players have simply avoided the issue. I am prepared to review the position for East Coast in the same way as for Khalsa. However, at some stage, rules do need to be set down, and once set down, they will, at some stage, have to be enforced. Players who haven't taken the opportunity of this thread to be heard over the past one and a half years still have ample opportunity to be heard. If players don't take this opportunity, and the rule is settled in a way that they disagree with or do not like, [red]they only have themselves to blame[/red]. |
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Post by Jye on Feb 17, 2012 23:57:51 GMT 8
Rajiv jeff and me used to play in the Espzen fureal league and they no blades rule is enforced very strictly for safety reasons. Just to clarify that we are not the only one with the no blades rule
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Post by Kelvin Au on Feb 18, 2012 2:24:57 GMT 8
Well, I'll represent the silent majority then. I honestly think that this has been blown way out of proportion by the vocal minority.
Out of the hundreds who play, I see only the usual people who are raising this as a complaint.
I dare say that a large portion of the playing population are not bothered enough, and even more so, not concerned enough to say anything (online).
Look, I do not advocate rough play. Anyone who has played with me, can testify to this. I've even strongly told my own team/friends off when they've been rough (e.g. charging, sliding tackles, awkward tackles etc).
You could equally get injured via a dozen other ways, than from a stud or blade.
Granted this is not an 11-aside game (where blades/studs are allowed), I don't see why this should be any different in a smaller court.
I feel strongly about this, because it seems more like the preferences of a vocal minority, overpowering the lack of interest from the silent majority.
I feel very strongly about shoulder charging, especially those who are very big sized, who weigh more than 80kg. I think it puts my safety at risk, as their momentum at high speeds would crush my puny frame against the pole/side netting. Hell, I was at the receiving end of some of these challenges. I've banged my head against the pole/bar before (serious!). Even though it was maybe only 3 times out of the 50+ times I've played, I would like to propose that anyone above the weight of 80kg either lose weight before they're allowed to play, or not be able to run at top speeds near the side nettings. Can we look into this for my safety as well please?
My 2 cents, since you asked for it...
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