Accounting for payments, credits & penalties

This thread currently deals with the above subject matter. Announcements and developments relating to the subject matter are posted below. Go to the last page (by clicking the largest number to the left of "NEXT >>" above) for the latest announcement/development.

As the subject matter has been modified from time to time, as described in various posts below, any given post may not fall squarely within the subject matter. As at 17 February 2014, this first post on this thread was:

Nov 22, 2010 10:43:37 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

Prepayment has come up as an issue in connection with late withdrawals and no shows.

It has also come up in connection with ensuring places for popular games are not block booked by one person immediately after the scheduling thread is put up.

Also, Sports Planet have informed me that from January 2010, I have to make advance payment for block bookings. As I am not prepared to bear the risk myself, I will only make advance payment if I have prepayment.

The advantage of prepayment is that the price of each game is fixed, regardless of the numbers who actually turn up and play. I am considering the following prices to start with:

* $10 per person per 6 or 7-a-side game on the big pitch at Sports Planet.
* $12 per person per 7 or 8-a-side game on the big pitch at the Premier Pitch.
* $9 per person for 5-a-side games.

In time, changes in price may be used to move demand from more popular games to less popular games.

As there is some urgency for the games at Sports Planet, I will introduce prepayment for the games on Tuesday and Thursday, 9 to 10 pm, at Sports Planet, in the second half of December 2010. Prepayment will be introduced for the Sunday games at the Premier Pitch early in the new year. Prepayment for other games will be introduced later next year.

Prepayment can either be per game or by way of a deposit to cover several games. In the case of the latter, I will deduct the cost of each game you put your name down for from the deposit. You must make prepayment or have sufficient deposit to put your name down for a game. I will maintain accounts as a spreadsheet that can be downloaded from the message board. If you decide not to play anymore, I will refund the balance deposit.

If a registered member puts names down for others, the deduction will be made from the deposit of the registered member who puts the name down, not the person whose name is put down. I will leave it to the registered member to collect payment from the person whose name he put down.

If anyone who has not prepaid plays in a game for which I have made advance payment, I will attend personally to collect payment. There will be a surcharge for me to attend personally.

For withdrawals:

* If you withdraw more than 18 hours before the game, the deduction will be reversed.
*If you withdraw 18 to 12 hours before the game, the deduction will be reversed, subject to a $2 charge.
* If you withdraw 12 to 6 hours before the game, half the deduction will be reversed.
* If you withdraw less than 6 hours before the game, you will still have to pay in full.
* The above charges will not apply if there is a reserve, or if there is no reserve but you find a replacement, and you confirm with the reserve or replacement that he will take your place, and the reserve or replacement confirms on the message board that he is taking your place, and the reserve or replacement has sufficient deposit. A reserve will usually have sufficient deposit before he puts his name down, and the deduction will be made from the reserve's deposit upon his confirming that he will play. If the replacement you find does not have sufficient deposit, the usual price will be deducted from your deposit, and I will leave it to you to seek reimbursement from your replacement.

I will confirm modes of payment by early December 2010.

I've registered a business (called "Everything Counts") and opened a bank account in that name. For now, you can pay by cheque, cash or internet banking. I'll provide the bank account details for later.

I will keep payment records. The payment records will replace the participation records. The "Monthly Round Up" board has been renamed as "Payment Records & Monthly Round Up". The records will be available under the "Payment Information" sub-board. You will have to log in to access the sub-board. The bank account details and other payment information will also be provided under that sub-board.

As the Tuesday night game at Sports Planet has consistently been the most popular for some time now, I will introduce prepayment for that game first.

Only registered members can put names down for regular games. When prepayment is introduced for a game, please make payment at least 36 hours before the game, or when you put your name down. You can either pay one game at a time, or pay a larger sum, from which the cost of future games will be deducted. You are also required to pay for anyone whose name you put down.

At a later stage, if you haven't made payment 36 hours before the game, any other player who wants to play and pays may be allowed to take your place.

If a player who doesn't prepay plays, I will be present at the game to collect payment. At a later stage, there will be a surcharge for me to come and collect payment.

The price of each game will be included in the scheduling thread. In time, the price of more popular games may be increased, and the price of less popular games reduced. More popular games may end up subsidizing less popular games. Any increase or reduction of price will be $1 at time. The price of more popular games will not be increased between the scheduling thread being put up and the game itself. However, the price of less popular games may be reduced between the scheduling thread being put up and the game itself, to try to ensure all the places are filled.

If there are no reserves, anyone else who comes in at a late stage to fill the place left by a late withdrawal (or lack of numbers) may be given a discount. If there are no reserves, it is best that you find your own replacement. If there are reserves, or there are no reserves and you cannot find a replacement, the prepayment will be deducted in whole or in part as set out in the first post above.

If I SMS people within 36 hours of a game to try to fill up remaining places, anyone who agrees to play will be given a discount. However, if you SMS me asking to put your name down for another game, there will be a surcharge.

Any surcharge or discount will only start sometime in the new year, at $1 or $2. The same applies to deductions for late withdrawals.

Dec 24, 2010 1:30:45 GMT 8 Ace said:

guys, shouldn't it be less than $10 cos it's $120 an hour shared by 14 players?

....

It's going to start with $10. The game will go ahead even with 12, in which case, that's $120 shared by 12. I also aim to build up a surplus for the following reasons:

* I will be prepaying for the pitches, so I need the security of a surplus.
* To subsidize less popular games (after the prepayment system is fully implemented).
* I will have to hire a part-timer at some stage to do the increasing amount of clerical work involved. That is a cost.
* In the longer term, I am looking to develop a dedicated website to replace the current generic one. Again, costs will be incurred.

The difference whether you share 12 ways or 14 ways is small, and I will probably end up out of pocket any way.

Further, as price will be used to moderate the demand for more popular games, the price may increase in future.

Dec 24, 2010 0:15:46 GMT 8 Bryan F said:

Dec 23, 2010 19:46:28 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

The big pitch is available as usual.

Prepayment has been introduced. Please pay $10 when you put your name down or 36 hours before the game. Account details are here.

Hi admin,

DBS/POSB iBanking's Interbank Fund Transfer only allows 12 characters for our Initials.
Thus it's not enough to input both our name and User ID.
For those using DBS/POSB, I suggest to input User ID only.

In addition, we are also required to input the following information when adding "Funds Transfer: New Other Bank Payee":
Payee Bank Code : 7375 (UOB)
Payee Branch Code : 031 (Siglap Branch 1)

Do also note the following clause for Fund Transfer from DBS/POSB to UOB:
Funds will generally be available to the payee 2 working days later if you submit the instruction before 8pm on a working day. Please note that immediate fund transfers to other banks effected on the weekend and public holidays will generally take 3 working days. For the purpose of this matter, a "working day" will mean Monday to Friday, excluding public holidays.

Hope the above info help.

Cheers
Bryan

Thanks Bryan. I'll update the payment information when the system has been tested and is more settled.

For next Tuesday, I'll be present to collect from those who aren't able to prepay (without any surcharge ). For those who play regularly, it might be better to pay a larger sum as deposit for several games.

I have opened a Paypal account in the name of "Everything Counts", and I can use it to request payment.

I believe there are no charges if you keep a credit balance in your Paypal account and make payment out of the balance.

I have to admit that the introduction of prepayment for Tuesday's game has been a bit messy. I didn't take into account that internet banking fund transfers from banks other than UOB to the UOB account would take 2 to 3 days. On the other hand, while Paypal is faster, not many people have Paypal accounts.

For now, I will streamline the process as follows:

* Put your name down as usual.
* I will use Paypal to send you an e-mail requesting payment.
* If you are paying for one game only, I suggest you use Paypal. If you don't have a Paypal account, open one. It's easy.
* If you are paying by internet banking fund transfer, I suggest you pay a deposit to cover several future games as well.
* I will be present at games for which prepayment is introduced to collect payment from those who have not prepaid. Any surcharge for this will only be introduced later.

Prepayment has been applied to the Thursday game too.

I have so far received one payment by Paypal. A fee of $0.89 was deducted.

I called Paypal to check why a fee was imposed when their webpage suggests that there would be no fee: www.paypal.com/sg/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside&nav=2.4

As the payment is primarily splitting the cost of a pitch, it should be personal. I confirmed this with Paypal. It doesn’t matter that my account is a business account.

Other reasons a fee might be charged are:

* Payment was made from a non-Singapore Paypal account.
* Payment was made by a credit/debit card deduction rather than a credit balance in the Paypal account.

For now, I will decline payments with a fee deduction and collect cash instead.

The alternatives are internet banking transfer or cheque payments.

The message board allows you to have a display name (which appears when you post on the message board) which is different from your user name/ID used to log in.

As I can only check the display name, please use the display name as your reference.

If you put the name down for another, prepayment will be requested from you for that other player, but if the other player is a registered member, and he later confirms for himself on the message board or by SMS to me, I will request prepayment from him instead.

Dec 29, 2010 0:57:22 GMT 8 Nic H said:

Rajiv,

Many thanks for coming by to collect the prepayments without playing and also for buying them drinks! Appreciate it.

My thoughts are how can we make this prepayment process easier for you or perhaps easier for everyone else. Is there something we could really do?

Just my 2cents worth...let us know your thoughts.

Cheers!

Dec 29, 2010 9:23:50 GMT 8 Rai said:

Agree with Nick above .. do let us know if we can be of any help since we do have quite a regular bunch for thee games @ SP every week .. best if you can join us for the games too

....

Dec 29, 2010 11:47:47 GMT 8 Carl Ong said:

Agree with Nick and Rai, thanks to Rajiv for coming down to collect the money.

....

As I'm introducing a new system, I want to make sure it is convenient yet workable in the long run. Internet payments should work. I think people just need time to get used to it.

There will be some teething problems, which will need to be ironed out. I need people to try the system and give me feedback on issues that arise.

I'll come down for at least 3 weeks to collect from those who haven't prepaid. I live close enough. I'm using the Tuesday and Thursday night games to test the system. The drinks are to help smoothen the transition to the new system.

One thing we can all do is remind everyone to read the message board regularly. There is a lot of information and reminders on it.

I have summarized the deposits I am holding here. I will continue to update it there, until it is replaced by a spreadsheet.

I've finally figured out how to make Paypal payment without incurring fees (provided you have a Singapore account and have a credit balance in your Paypal account):

* Log in to Paypal.
* Click on “Send Money”
* Click on “Personal Payments”
* Enter the email address and the amount to be paid.
* It will suffice to select “Payment owed”.
* Then click on “Continue”.

When I request payment through Paypal, fees (3.4% + $0.50) will be charged if you send money in response to the request. Therefore, from now on, I will include the fee when I request payment, but I will include in the accompanying e-mail the alternatives (ie, the steps above or internet banking transfer) where no fee need be paid.

I've finally managed to receive payment via Paypal without a fee being charged.

To add a credit balance to your Paypal account, click on "Top Up" after you log in to Paypal.

If everyone prepays, I will not be present at next week's Tuesday and Thursday night games. Accordingly, priority will be given to those who prepay.

There will be an extra 7-a-side game on Wednesday next week at Sports Planet. I will be playing that game. As an extra game, prepayment will not be required.

The introduction of a system of prepayment was announced on 22 November 2010.

Prepayment was introduced for the Tuesday and Thursday night games at Sports Planet from 28 December 2010.

I thought it would take three weeks to iron out teething problems, but the basic issues have been addressed within two weeks.

Prepayment will be fully implemented for the Tuesday and Thursday night games from next week onwards. The basic features are:

* Put your name down as usual.
* Unless or until payment is received, anyone who prepays can get in ahead of you. Only prepayment received at least a specified number of hours before the game will give you priority.
* Prepayment can be out of a deposit paid earlier, payment for a particular game by Paypal, or paying out of a deposit paid earlier by a friend. If it is payment out of a friend's deposit, please specify which friend, and the friend must confirm that he agrees to it.
* I will be present to collect payment only if anyone playing has not prepaid.

Other features of the prepayment system will be added later.

If someone whose name is put down has not prepaid, I may use Paypal to send that person an e-mail requesting payment. The sum requested will include the Paypal fee (3.4% + $0.50). However, the fee need not be paid if you use a Singapore account, have a credit balance in your account, and pay using the following steps:

* Log in to Paypal.
* Click on “Send Money”
* Click on “Personal Payments”
* Enter the email address and the amount to be paid.
* It will suffice to select “Payment owed”.
* Then click on “Continue”.

To add a credit balance to your Paypal account, click on "Top Up" after you log in to Paypal.

The account details for internet banking transfer or cheque deposit, and the e-mail address for Paypal payment, are set out here. You have to be logged in to access that page.

The introduction of prepayment for the weekend games may be brought forward to as early as later this month.

For now, to get priority for prepayment, payment must be received at least 36 hours before the game.

If you have paid a deposit, you can check your balance here. Again, you have to be logged in to access that page.

I've updated the "Payment modes" here.

The Excel spreadsheet showing deposits received and usage of the deposits has been created. More details here.

The "Payment Information" board is now a separate board under the "General" category (instead of a sub-board of the "Monthly Round Up" board).

Jan 6, 2011 16:22:28 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

For now, to get priority for prepayment, payment must be received at least 36 hours before the game.

....

I'm reducing this to at least 24 hours.

For now, if you pay by a method other than Paypal, can you either add a post under the "Payment received to date" thread or send me a message through the message board to inform me that you have made payment. UOB has taken more than month to get my internet banking services in order. They claim is due to a backlog over Christmas and New Year. As for Paypal, I am sent an e-mail everytime a payment is receive, so no need to inform me on the message board.

I won't be making any deductions for late withdrawals for now. If I do introduce it, it will only be for very late withdrawals to begin with.