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Post by Rajiv on Aug 27, 2011 12:56:33 GMT 8
.... .... I believe the Saturday evening game at Turf City is particularly prone to latecoming (which is what has gotten Rainer so frustrated) as players under-estimate the Saturday afternoon/evening traffic in the Bukit Timah area. Please aim to be 15 minutes early. .... Anyone else with any views? |
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Post by Rajiv on Sept 6, 2011 7:38:17 GMT 8
First of all, apologies for being 20 min late last Sat i was held up at an earlier match that i played for my company team. .... I suggest that if anyone who is down for a game but has a commitment, engagement or appointment before the game that risks running over or being delayed, then unless you are sure you can give priority to our game, you withdraw first and let someone else play instead. You can always remain in reserve. .... we started with 6-a-side as 4 players were late. .... I understand Rainer's frustration. There was also a player in reserve for Saturday. For being so late, I won't give CH the $2 credit for being the first to report. I'll give it to the next one, who happens to be Rainer.  I have started adding the following when suggesting line ups for the Saturday game: Now that the Saturday game is more popular than the Sunday game, I might have to be stricter with latecoming for the Saturday game. |
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Post by Rajiv on Sept 17, 2011 7:40:19 GMT 8
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Post by Rajiv on Oct 3, 2011 9:14:24 GMT 8
Some unusual cases of lateness recently: * The Sunday before last, Damian called me at 4.45 pm to say his had stalled at Sixth Avenue. He was waiting for a towtruck, and would take a taxi to Turf City. When I called him back 5 minutes later to see if he could still make it for the game, he said he had left his keys in the car for the towtruck, and was trying to get a taxi to take him to Turf City. Such dedication! He was probably about 15 minutes late. * Last Wednesday, Srini SMSed me at 8.58 pm to say he had mistakenly gone to Sports Planet instead of Khalsa, and was heading to Khalsa. He called me at aout 9.10 pm to say he was at Serangoon Road. No mention of his lateness in the report though. * Last Thursday, Hail called mat about 9.10 pm to say he had overslept. I asked him to speak to Sufian, who had put his name down for the game and had paid for him. Hail said he would rush to the game. No report for the game. There's not much I can do if you call me to say you are late. All it serves is to keep me informed. It actually makes more sense for whoever is doing the report to just mention it. If you're so late that you can't make it before the end of the game, then let me know as soon as possible that you can't make it, as you then don't have to pay the full price, just the lesser penalty. |
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Post by Rajiv on Oct 3, 2011 9:15:34 GMT 8
Some unusual cases of lateness recently: .... There's not much I can do if you call me to say you are late. All it serves is to keep me informed. It actually makes more sense for whoever is doing the report to just mention it. If you're so late that you can't make it before the end of the game, then let me know as soon as possible that you can't make it, as you then don't have to pay the full price, just the lesser penalty. |
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Post by Rajiv on Oct 19, 2011 23:39:27 GMT 8
A doctor attending to a collapsed patient may be a very good reason for him not to turn up for a game, but there is still a penalty for the no show. .... I suppose if it had been movie tickets or the like, you'd still have had to pay the full amount (rather than a reduced penalty). .... However, if there is a very good reason, I may give the player $1 off for his next few games, to offset against the penalty. |
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Post by Rajiv on Oct 29, 2011 14:29:07 GMT 8
On "The social aspect" thread: .... It makes for better communication within a team, and a better game experience, if you know the names of your team mates, especially those you've played with before. .... On the "team organization, formations & tactics" thread: And more on "The social aspect" thread: .... Every schedule thread includes: Everyone should aim to be at the venue 10 to 15 minutes before the game. Introduce yourself to those you're not familiar with. The names appear in the line ups, so it's a matter of connecting the name with the actual person, rather than learning names from scratch. One more reason to be early. And as previously pointed out: .... Latecoming can also cause confusion about line ups. It happened again last Thursday. To give a simple example: * If two players with Whites are late, the rest may assume one of Reds should be with Whites, so one of Reds' players switches over. * When the two Whites players arrive, one switches over to Reds. Again, an arbitrary change. It's one thing if the players agree to a switch after some consideration. Arbitrary changes to line ups due to players bringing the wrong colour or latecoming are unacceptable because they are arbitrary. If we are going to settle for arbitrary changes to the line ups, why should I spend significant time giving consideration to line ups. We might as well settle for the original system. From a post on the old blog on 12 April 2009: It would save me a fair amount of time, but I imagine no one would be happy with the situation. ..... .... Everyone, please be early for every game. The games are only one hour, so factor in an extra 15 minutes before the game starts, and try to be at the venue 15 minutes before the start of the hour. .... We are all responsible adults here right, capable of being punctual without having to factor 10 to 15 minutes beforehand into the time slot. |
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Post by Rajiv on Nov 14, 2011 9:30:01 GMT 8
Saturday evening traffic to Bukit Timah is a lot worse than on Sunday evening. I give myself about 10 to 15 minutes extra for travel. If it rains, it's even worst, and I switch from the PIE to the Bartley Road East/Lornie Road route. I've been adding a reminder when it rains on Saturday afternoon. On 27 August 2011 and 3 September 2011, I added: Later, I changed that to: Last Saturday, it was simply "If it rains, please allow more time for travel." I will continue to include a reminder if it rains on Saturday afternoon.
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 20, 2012 11:41:24 GMT 8
Latecoming seems to have become less of an issue. Most regulars know the importance of being punctual. However, it still does arise from time to time, more so with newer players or guests. .... ... as I have pointed out before, latecoming can be disruptive to a team. The team has already settled into a pattern of play, and then they have to change the pattern to accomodate the latecomer. .... putting down names for guests should remind them to be punctual. |
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 22, 2012 23:47:55 GMT 8
Penalties for late withdrawals or no shows were introduced in August 2011. The player doesn't have to pay for the game, just the lesser penalty. I have waived the penalty a couple of times recently: * A player who thought he had withdrawn on the schedule thread, but evidently forgot to press post, so his withdrawal did not appear on the thread. * A player who went to the wrong venue. I waived the penalty for two reasons: * The player believed he had fulfilled the requirements of the system, but made a mistake. * The player had put his name down for the game at my request, as we were short of players. Currently, only withdrawals less than 3 hours before the game incur a penalty. However, as I try to finish off the line ups 6 to 4 hours before a game, withdrawals less than 6 hours before the game are frustrating. If a player is injured or unwell, he should know more than 6 hours before the game. Don't leave your name in in the hope you'll feel better. Withdraw early, and if you feel better, and the place is still available, put your name back in at that stage. Although the penalty for late withdrawals and no shows is primarily symbolic and intended to mark disapproval, the symbolic disapproval should be extended to up to 6 hours before the game. However, as it is meant to be symbolic, it will remain low, and not go up as quickly as before for even later withdrawals or no shows. The revised penalties, to take effect from 1 February 2012 onwards: * 6 to 3 hours before the game - $1 * 3 to 1.5 hours before the game - $2 * 1.5 hours to 30 minutes hour before the game - $3 * 30 minutes before the game to 15 minutes into the game - $4 * No show with explanation provided more than 15 minutes into the game - $5 * No show with no explanation provided - $7. As the penalty is symbolic, and not intended to compensate me for the time and effort in dealing with late withdrawals and no shows, it will be the same for all venues. As stated in the preceding post, if there is a very good reason for the late withdrawal, I may give the player $1 off for his next few games, to offset against the penalty.
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 30, 2012 23:02:43 GMT 8
.... If you're not familiar with the other players or the venue, please be early. If you're late, and there is a mix up, please call me. |
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Post by Rajiv on Feb 6, 2012 22:56:49 GMT 8
A withdrawal less than 10 minutes before tonight's game. .... .... I can on the rare occasion get a replacement as late as 30 minutes before the game. It is usually impossible 8 minutes before the game. If you don't look like finishing your work an hour before the game, best to let me know then. In fact, usually anything less than an hour and a half before the game is already difficult. Once you realise there is a real chance that you might be late or unable to make it, you should withdraw immediately. You should not deprive someone else of the place. If later, you find you can make it on time, then check if a place is still available. And it limits your penalty to $1 or 2, rather than going up to $3, $4 or more! There is a thin line between between late withdrawals and latecoming. Except where an urgent matter comes up unexpectedly, it is usually about time management. The same player was more than 15 minutes late the week before. An unrealistic expectation that you can finish up something else and rush over in time hardly ever works out that way. At best, you're significantly late. At worst, you realise late on that you cannot make it at all. That's poor time management. It also reflects poorly on you not only as a member of this community, but as an employee of whatever firm or company you work for. As we only play for one hour flat out, without substitutes, you should be aiming to arrive 15 minutes before the game is due to start, not 15 minutes after it starts. .... If you put your name down to play you should turn up on time and be ready to play [at the time the game is scheduled for]. Every schedule thread includes "Those playing, please be early, ....". This has been a recurring issue. As early as October 2008, I had stated on the old blog: The General Information on the Regular & Extra Games board also provides: All approved players are required to be familiar with the General Information page, and to remind their guests of the same. I know it has been said countless times before but cancellIng at short notice or turning up late ruins it for those who make the effort to be there on time and is plain selfish. If u cant make it, dont sign up. Simples. Not just selfish, but lacking in respect for the other players who turn up, and on time. If you want to be part of this community, you have to accept its values and standards. |
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Post by Rajiv on Mar 14, 2012 22:42:34 GMT 8
.... There is a thin line between between late withdrawals and latecoming. Except where an urgent matter comes up unexpectedly, it is usually about time management. .... I have merged the "Latecoming" thread with the "Late withdrawals & no shows" thread and renamed the thread "Making time to play & punctuality". Couple of no shows over the past week: * Last Wednesday, apparently due to a lack of communication. * On Saturday, for reasons unknown. Fortunately, on both occasions, we were able to pick up a one of our own regulars who happened to be playing in an earlier game. Some late coming as well: * Last Tuesday, self-confessed. * Last Wednesday, with a new player. * This Tuesday, as reported. With this Tuesday's game being 6-a-side, the latecoming affected the line ups. As I have pointed out before: .... It's one thing if the players agree to a switch after some consideration. Arbitrary changes to line ups due to ... latecoming are unacceptable because they are arbitrary. If we are going to settle for arbitrary changes to the line ups, why should I spend significant time giving consideration to line ups. .... .... As stated from early on, putting your name (or the name of a friend) down for a game carries a commitment to play, including to turn up on time. If you subsequently find you cannot make it, or cannot be sure you can make it, then withdraw immediately. .... I suggest that if anyone who is down for a game but has a commitment, engagement or appointment before the game that risks running over or being delayed, then unless you are sure you can give priority to our game, you withdraw first and let someone else play instead. You can always remain in reserve. .... This is especially so when there are reserves. Latecoming, a late withdrawal or a no show not only risks spoiling the game for the other players for that game, it risks depriving a reserve of a game as well. Looking it at it that way, it is selfish. There are penalties for late withdrawals and no shows. However, if a player voluntarily gives up his place so that a reserve gets to play, I will not treat it as a late withdrawal (if done early enough). If a player is repeatedly late, or repeatedly withdraws late or doesn't show, he just makes himself out to be unreliable. In the longer term, I have to ask if he is a suitable member of our community. Our games are scheduled for 1 hour, short and sharp. Aim to be 10 to 15 minutes early, so that you have time to meet the other players and warm up before the game starts. This is repeated in every schedule thread. It's about making time for the game, being responsible, and showing regard for the other players. Ultimately, it is about being an adult. |
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Post by Raj Singh on Apr 16, 2012 10:10:17 GMT 8
If a player withdraws late, I only look to that player for payment of the penalty, not the full amount. .... If I find a replacement who can play at less than half an hour's notice, the payment for that player is approximately two-thirds the usual payment. The player is counted as having played. If a late replacement is found at the venue by those playing the game: * If it is not one of our regular players, I do not look to the player for payment, and do not record it as a game played by that player. * If it is one of our regular players, I look to the player for payment of half the usual payment (even though the player plays the full game), and record it as a game played by that player. If the players make alternative arrangements between themselves for payment, that's up to them. I'm just looking to be covered to the extent set out above. Just inform me of the outcome. Hi Rajiv Sorry but i disagree on the payment thing . If someone pulls out last minute , he has to bare the full amount and with penalty . With Lynz as being a bonus cause he happen to be there and suppose to be playing another game , should not bare any cost . Unless if someone pulls out but gets another replacement by either you or himself , is a diff scenerio . With the last min pull out , it changes the game and somehow with the scoreline yesterday , it got some players really frustated. |
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Post by Elvin on Apr 16, 2012 10:16:42 GMT 8
.... If a player withdraws late, I only deduct the penalty, not the full amount. In this case, it would be $4. .... To be honest Rajiv, i think a $4 penalty isnt adequate at all for the trouble that a player who doesnt show up cause. 15 other players suffer for it, although 7 would suffer more than the 8 on the opposing team. It causes inbalance and makes the game less enjoyable than it should be. I really dont see any excusable reason for a player not coming down or informing at the very last min that he cant play and a higher penalty should be called for. This is the 2nd week in a row that a player did not turn up. I suggest you open this subj to the floor and ask for suggestions on the appropiate penalty..........$4 or even the game money is not enough in my view. |
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Post by Foo Cheong on Apr 16, 2012 10:52:05 GMT 8
With Lynz as being a bonus cause he happen to be there and suppose to be playing another game, should not bare any cost. What if it was not Lynz, but a replacement that we picked up from the vicinity? Would this person be required to pay? No Or do we field only replacements who are willing to pay? Makes finding a replacement much more difficult. |
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Post by Foo Cheong on Apr 16, 2012 10:54:56 GMT 8
Rajiv, all these is a bit too tedious for you to implement, and too tedious for players to remember. Any $6 is not going to hurt players who drive or take taxis to games. I said it before. A $6 fine is not going to hurt millionaire footballers who drive or take taxis to games. It is like fining Carlos Tevez Stg1,000 pounds when he is earning Stg200,000 per week. |
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Post by Rajiv on Apr 16, 2012 10:55:21 GMT 8
I've moved the posts by Rockstar and Elvin above here, and added the passages they were responding to. It's open for discussion. Some practical considerations: * Unless everyone maintains a minimum credit, you might just find players who don't show just not playing anymore, and leaving the payment/penalty owing to me. * Whatever the penalty, we still have to deal with the no show at the game itself. The greater risk is newer players who are not familiar with the system. With newer players, I send them a reminder after the line ups are put up. In this case, Look Liew put Peter's name down for him, and I don't have Peter's number. As Look Liew was paying for Peter, I left it to Look Liew to remind him. I don't expect regular players not to show, but it does happen from time to time, like the week before: Apologies to everyone, completely forgot I put my name down for today's game. I guess age is taking its toll... Sorry for the whites, hope it wasn't too bad... Whatever, the penalty, we still have to deal with the situation at the game itself. Some adjustment to the line ups may be necessary. The team selectors do need to co-operate on this. I don't think it's about how rich our players are. For some, $100 may be nothing. For others, $4 may be a lot. It's really about how familiar our players are with our system. New players need to be introduced in a more systematic way. Amongst other things, perhaps guests should only be allowed to play when their introducer or the approved player putting their name down for them is playing as well. |
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Post by Raj Singh on Apr 16, 2012 10:56:06 GMT 8
With Lynz as being a bonus cause he happen to be there and suppose to be playing another game, should not bare any cost. What if it was not Lynz, but a replacement that we picked up from the vicinity? Would this person be required to pay? No Or do we field only replacements who are willing to pay? Makes finding a replacement much more difficult. That is my point |
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Post by Raj Singh on Apr 16, 2012 11:03:53 GMT 8
I know these things do happen time to time when come to no Show but again for those registered by their colleagues should be reminded in the morning of the match so that we all have ample time to get a replacement if he cant make it .
I believe everyone wants to enjoy their 1 hour time off by family and ensure its worthwhile .
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