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Post by Rajiv on Feb 15, 2011 17:14:16 GMT 8
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Post by Rajiv on Feb 27, 2011 11:15:28 GMT 8
The issue of taking turns in goal has been raised again: .... [Justin's suggestion above.] I don't believe Justin was suggesting more detailed rules. Anyway, more detailed or technical rules are usually not helpful, and detract from the enjoyment of the activity. The rules serve a simple function: .... The rules are geared towards keeping the game flowing while reducing the risk of injury and are intended to accommodate different styles of play. ... More important is playing in the right spirit. I'll try to remember to include a reminder about everyone taking turns in goal when suggesting line ups. If I overlook it, any regular can post a reminder on the schedule thread before the game. If a consensus can be reached amongst those playing in a game on a method of ensuring the rule is complied with, all the better. .... I have started a separate discussion thread on taking turns in goal. To reiterate, the rule is as follows: .... * The players in each team take turns in goal. It’s the only break you get! Unless a player volunteers to spend more time in goal, everyone should spend a similar amount of time in goal. .... .... |
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Post by Rajiv on Apr 4, 2012 14:03:16 GMT 8
.... Quote of the day: "Guard your man!! Hold on to his shirt if you need to!" (personally I think this is unnecessary and uncalled for .. even when we don't actually mean it) .... Reminds me of the following passage from the "Playing Styles And Foul Play" post on the old blog (dated 29 January 2009): It comes down to what was meant by the first quote. If it means track an opposing player at all times, we can let it pass. If it means hold on to your opponent so that he can't get away from you, then its not acceptable. I've added the following to the "Playing Rules & Principles": .... * ..., committing a deliberate foul, or calling out to a team mate to commit a deliberate foul, clearly amounts to not playing in the right spirit. .... The above post on the old blog was the first attempt to identify rules for our games. |
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Post by Rajiv on Jun 26, 2012 8:32:22 GMT 8
.... The current review of the use of blades at Khalsa and East Coast will continue until June. .... .... Of course ideally, we should aim to have standard rules and requirements for all our venues, but we do need some degree of variation to allow for the different playing conditions. For example, games at East Coast and Kallang are played off the side padding/wall/fencing, while games at Turf City and Khalsa are played to the side-lines. Nevertheless: More generally: .... I give leeway to newer players, to allow them time to familiarize themselves with the values, principles, standards, rules and system. I also don't want to make it too onerous for regulars to introduce new players. There should be no deterrence to introducing new players. In fact, as stated above, a consistent flow of new players is what has kept GIFFA (and FIOFAFI before that) going. Also, our games are ultimately social, so I am not inclined to have or enforce a lot of technical rules, or severe penalties for breaches of the rules. For those who repeatedly ignore our values, principles, standards and rules, the ultimate sanction is exclusion, either from particular games or completely. The converse of course is that: .... ...., the regulars should make more effort to comply with the rules. .... |
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Post by Rajiv on Jul 4, 2012 16:00:27 GMT 8
..., i noticed the games have become a bit rougher. .... Look Liew often refers to the Sunday game as "robust", most recently in relation to the games on 13 June 2012 and 1 July 2012. I think all our games have become rougher. Every schedule thread includes the following: The Playing Rules & Principles include: .... * [red] The following are not allowed during a game[/red]: * sliding tackle * raising of foot above knee level. * tackle from behind * tackle where the sole of the shoe makes contact with an opposing player * body checks * shoulder charge * raising of elbow * outstretched arm * raising of knee when jumping * pushing * holding * kicking or hacking a player. * tripping a player. If significant contact is made with an opposing player by any of the above, it is a foul (even if the ball is won), with a free kick to the opposing side if committed outside the D and a penalty if committed inside the D. Any player who repeatedly commits such fouls will be suspended. .... In all likelihood, not many players read the rules (although I would hope that those who play regularly will over time become familiar with the system and rules). During our games, we often play advantage, or don't call the foul when it occurs, so the rules aren't reinforced during the game. Although we don't need to get technical with rules, players need to play in the right spirit. If the attitude is "I'll stop my opponent by whatever means possible", rather than focusing on winning or clearing the ball, that is wrong. The responsibilities of team selectors/ captains extend to: * Reminding players, especially those on their team, to play to the rules, especially not to slide or commit other bad tackles. * Playing in the right spirit, and reminding their team mates to do the same. Apart from the the risk of immediate injury to an opponent, the longer term damage caused by overly robust play and bad tackles is two-fold: * Players pick up injuries, and may be unable to play for a while. * Players looking for a more social game may be put off coming back. If games are short of players as a result, they may be cancelled. Players do need to take a longer term perspective of such things. |
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Post by Martijn on Oct 2, 2012 16:12:53 GMT 8
Hi, I think that Desmond was spot-on on these free kicks. In particular last Saturday we had several free kicks (probably at least 4 or 5) which essentially only led to a disadvantage to the team receiving them. I would not want to insinuate that people made technical fouls on purpose, but a 'free kick for the other team' is certainly not a disincentive for making fouls at the moment.
While I enjoyed the game last Saturday, it was clearly physical and to avoid injuries, I personally prefer to disincentivise fouls.
I understand and agree that direct free kicks are not easy, but having said that, all the free kicks taken last Saturday were exactly trying to do that. Even if it is an indirect free kick, we should allow to have much more distance to the ball (let's say 5 steps instead of 2 which I think is in line with Rajiv's suggestion) to make it slightly more appealing.
An alternative is to give one penalty after 3 fouls (on top of the free kick). That is what we used to do on the street when I was growing up. In particular if the two captains are the ones acting as a referee, it could remain civilised.
A third alternative would go the ice hockey route, for instance 5 minutes on the bench for each person committing a second foul. The third alternative would have my preference as it impacts the person committing the foul most directly.
Hope this helps,
While you have not seen a direct free kick successful this is exactly what everyone was trying.
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Post by Rajiv on Nov 20, 2012 7:43:11 GMT 8
From the report thread for the game on Saturday: .... .... Under "Playing Rules & Principles": .... * We continue to play off the overhead netting. * We can score from anywhere on the pitch. However, if a ball goes in directly off the overhead netting, it is not a goal. .... .... .... .... you said " we can score fm anywhere on the pitch" ? My understanding is you cant score directly fm a kick in fm the lines unless it touches another player. Is that correct? .... ...., we cant score directly from the lines when there is any outside unless it hits someone . Law XVI of Futsal Laws of the Game provides "Cannot score directly from a kick-in.". However: If you go through The Futsal Laws of the Game, you'll find several that are either inapplicable or not applied to our games. By contrast, the ESPZen Rules provide for a roll in (see page 86). Also from our "Playing Rules & Principles": .... We play each game without a referee. The rules are geared towards keeping the game flowing while reducing the risk of injury and are intended to accommodate different styles of play. .... Also, under GIFFA values, principles & standards: .... ..., our games are ultimately social, so I am not inclined to have or enforce a lot of technical rules, .... Therefore, the rules and principles generally are as permissive as possible, constrained mainly by safety considerations. One reason we continue playing off the roof/top netting at Turf City and Kallang even though other leagues/groups may deem it as being out of play. No scoring off the nets was introduced as early as 9 December 2008. Probably because it was thought of as being too flukey. |
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Post by Rajiv on Nov 17, 2015 17:39:20 GMT 8
There have been controversies in the following recent games about handball: As I stated in the report thread for the game on 3 November 2015: Calling a foul for handball is a controversial area. Even referees in the professional game have a lot of difficulty with making the right call. Some articles to read: My aim is to keep our games flowing and to avoid getting bogged down in technical rules. As deliberate handball is a controversial area, unless it is reasonably clear that there was contact between the ball and a player's hand or arm, and that the contact was deliberate on the part of the player, it is not a foul. The Playing Rules also provide: .... - As we play without a referee, if a player involved in a passage of play calls a foul, play it back to one of the goalkeepers until it is agreed that is is a foul. If it is disputed, the game continues from the goalkeeper who has possession of the ball. If necessary, the dispute can be resolved later on the message board. Don’t just leave the ball for the opposing side and stop playing. Sometimes, they will continue and score.
- At first instance, the matter should be left to the players involved in the passage of play. Other players not involved in the passage of play can express an opinion, but don’t press it. The final word is with the team selectors/captains. If there is no agreement, the game continues from the goalkeeper in possession of the ball.
.... .... Each of our games is played in a confined space, with a much higher player to playing area ratio than 11-a-side football. The risk of the ball deflecting or ricocheting off other players or other parts of the body and striking an arm or the hand is high. Unless it is reasonably clear that the hand or arm was moved towards the ball, or held in a position, to deliberately block, deflect or control the ball, it is not a foul. If there is any real doubt, we continue with a goal kick, with possession going to the team that was last in possession. More generally, to assist the selectors/captains to make a quick decision on disputed calls, please apply the following rules of thumb: - If the player on the receiving end of the tackle or challenge is physically hurt or suffers greater physical impact than is a normal incident of our games, it is presumed to be a foul, resulting in a free kick or penalty.
- In every other case, it is presumed not to be a foul, and the game should resume with a goal kick.
While the aim is to keep the game free flowing, safety is a priority. On the other hand, from the "GIFFA values, principles & standards" thread: .... What is clear that all conduct that amounts to gamesmanship or that adversely affects the spirit in which our games are played is not allowed. This includes: - ....
- Feigning being on the receiving end of a foul, or feigning an injury.
- ....
During the game, players can refer such conduct to the team selectors/captains. If appropriate, team selectors/captains should speak to the offending player. After the game, any player, including the team selector/captain, can refer such conduct to me, with sufficient detail of what transpired. .... ..., if despite several reminders, a player doesn't participate in accordance with the principles and rules, or his breach is very egregious, I will have no choice but to exclude him from further participation, whether for a period of time, or indefinitely. As I am prepared to give everyone several chances, I do not easily treat a breach as very egregious. To "feigning an injury", I will add "feigning serious hurt". Also, from the "Sportsmanship & Gamesmanship" thread: .... Players can disagree about calls, but the use of pejorative terms like "cheat", even if purportedly in jest, is uncalled for, and unsporting. Please cut it out. Anyone who can't deal with such issues as a sensible adult should seriously consider whether our games are suitable for him. |
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Post by Rajiv on Jan 15, 2016 14:49:48 GMT 8
From the "The social dimension, and fun" thread: I have renamed the "Sportsmanship v Gamesmanship" thread on the "Introductions, Requests & Chat" board as "Attitudes". From that thread: .... The issues are clearly broader than simply "Sportsmanship v Gamesmanship". It is about the attitude players have about our games, or take during our games, and covers several aspects, including: - Gamesmanship, including winding up opponents, simulation, and feigning injury, and making unnecessary calls during a game or insisting on calls going in one's favour.
- Excessive arguing and unnecessary displays of hostility, anger, or aggression.
- Over-reacting or retaliating, whether in words or overzealous tackling.
Further, we all need to learn to balance the competitive edge to our games with the primary social dimension. .... The social dimension is primary. Competitiveness is the edge. Players who overdo the competitiveness have to consider whether they want to play with us, or find a team playing in a competitive league, or even organise their own game. Our values are clearly stated on the "Playing Rules & Principles" thread: .... Our core values are: - Maintaining health, fitness and/or interests even as we get older through sustainable participation in sports and other activity.
- Facilitating a work-life balance.
- Voluntary participation with maturity and in good spirits.
- Achieving a balanced and healthy perspective on sport and competition.
- Developing friendships and finding enjoyment through participation.
Everyone who plays by the rules and core values is welcome. The converse is that anyone who does not play by the rules and core values is not welcome. .... I will remind players of this as often as necessary. Given the primary social dimension, I am loathe to suspend or ban any player. .... Unprovoked and excessive personal abuse, violence well beyond the physical contact inherent in football, or putting other's safety at serious risk are probably the only things for which I would impose an immediate sanction. And exaggerating incidents or over-reacting to them in order to influence me will be counter-productive. And I will remember. Our players need to get on with each other for the system to work. A lot of players meet for the first time through our games, and get to know each other well. Players who don't appreciate the core values, or the system we work with, have to decide for themselves if they want to continue playing with us. .... ..... Given the primary social dimension, I would rather seek to modify unsuitable behaviour through repeated reminders, rather than adding or imposing more technical or rigid rules and sanctions. .... If repeated reminders don't have the desired effect, I am prepared to tailor specific rules and sanctions for the player in question. It is then left to the player concerned to decide for himself whether he wishes to continue to play in our games. However, if unsuitable attitudes and behaviours do not change after repeated reminders and more limited sanctions, and the player still insists on playing in our games, at some stage, the player concerned will have to be specifically excluded. In a related context, Dennis was one of the team captains for the 6-a-side game on Tuesday, 12 January 2016, on a small pitch at The Grandstand. Not for the first time, the mood of the Tuesday game deteriorated quickly over petty calls, arguments, and reactions. The core values should be borne in mind at all times during our games. Also, at stated at the outset on the "Playing Rules & Principles" thread: .... We play each game without a referee. The playing rules set out in the post below are geared towards keeping the game flowing while reducing the risk of injury and are intended to accommodate different styles of play. .... Where the two selectors/captains agree on a decision, they in effect act jointly as referee. However, no one selector or captain is a referee. More importantly, one of the primary aims is to keep the game flowing, and not to constantly stop the game over inconsequential or imagined fouls. From the "Abilities" thread on the "Introductions, Requests & Chat" board: .... In attempting to apply the rules, Dennis seems to have overlooked the following: .... If significant contact is made with an opposing player by any of the above, it is a foul (even if the ball is won), with a free kick to the opposing side if committed outside the D and a penalty if committed inside the D. Any player who repeatedly commits such fouls will be suspended. .... There is a requirement for "significant contact" before a foul is called. It has to be applied sensibly. I think there is an increasing tendency by certain players to over-react, whether it is Dennis or anyone else calling fouls over inconsequential incidents, and then blowing it up, or players reacting to Dennis, and the whole thing getting blown up even more. Over-reacting is often a form of gamesmanship, in the same way simulation or feigning injury is, and needs to be cut out - Dennis has to stop the excessive calling of fouls, and arguing about them, and those playing with him need to be thicker-skinned (as apparently Honda is  ). If players are going to overreact, I will define "significant, change "significant" to "substantial" or some other word that is clearer in meaning, or consider further changes to the rules. Football is a contact sport. Our games are for adults. In this context, at its simplest, "significant contact" means over and above that which is normally incidental to, or to be expected, in our games. .... I will review the Playing Rules & Principles over the next few months to ensure the above considerations are brought out clearly. On a separate note, from the schedule thread for last night's game: .... I'd like to raise the question of using spiked boots during Giffa games... about 6 players were using spiked boots and that led to a number of injuries on both sides. Moritz's toe was bleeding after the game as he got stamped on unintentionally and Kenny also took a nasty wack. For the whites, 1 player also got kicked in the ankle (unintentionally of course) and was nice enough to get up immediately and shake it off. If football boots are the norm of Khalsa matches, I'm definitely going to recommend everyone to wear it (along with shin guards) so that at least everyone is prepared and people don't complain about spikes at the end of the game.. aka play at your own risk. Just my thoughts. .... I messaged Imran on WhatsApp. He couldn't remember who had worn studs. If I know who they are, I can remind the players concerned of the rules on footwear. From the "Game kit & equipment" thread: .... The rules are clear: .... It is now a question of enforcement. I'm not going to suggest that selectors/captains check footwear before the game. However, if anyone notices improper or unsuitable footwear, they should bring it to the attention of the selectors/captains. At first instance, it is for the selectors/captains to decide what action should be taken. At the very least, they should remind the player concerned to exercise greater care. If the matter is more serious (either the player disregards the selectors/captains, or there is an injury, or a player has been reminded previously), the selectors/captains or the other players affected should inform me. .... .... It would be useful if team selectors/captains could take note. Perhaps team selectors/captains should carry a notebook and pen during the game. The rules on footwear were established some time ago. Players, especially new or newer ones need to be informed or reminded. Although it is on the GIFFA System thread, most players don't read. In order to inform or remind a player, I need to know who the player is. If, instead of informing me of an issue so that I can address it with the players concerned, other players, especially the longstanding ones, take the view that they will disregard the system or rules as well, that is the start of the breakdown. I am seriously considering requiring team selectors/captains to have a notebook and a pen with them.  More seriously, players, especially team selectors/captains, have to appreciate that they undermine the long term sustainability of a game if they don't provide me with relevant information. |
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