Saturday Evening At Turf City (2) - 28 Jan 2012

I received 2 SMSes about yesterday's game, so I'm putting up the report thread early, so everyone can comment on the message board.

The first SMS was from Stanley at 6.41 pm yesterday, soon after the game ended:

Bro, the score its like White 22 Red 2 we even lost count. I think its really not fair to let them arrange line up, its ridiculous not fun at all to get trashed

The second today was from Ganesh today in reply to my mass SMS asking if anyone wants to play today:

yesterday my team got screwed big time. line up was very one sided

As for line ups:

Jan 28, 2012 14:16:08 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

I'll assign colours to the teams agreed between Arijit and CH:

Whites: Dave H, Boris, Jye, Lynz, Rockstar, Rainer, Arijit, Uday
Reds: Azmi, Leo, Chen Hong, CH Lim, Fred, Stan the Man, Ganesh, Adrian Kwok

Everyone, please bring both a white top and a red top in any event.

....

When I put up the prediction poll, I thought Whites would win comfortably, but I refrained from voting. And I have been wrong about line ups before.

4 approved players did vote. Without naming names:

* 2 said it would be a close game. Both are Saturday regulars, one was on Whites and the other was not playing.
* 1 said Whites would win comfortably. This was a Reds player who isn't a Saturday regular but would be familiar with all the players.
* 1 said Reds would win comfortably. This was a Reds player who isn't a Saturday regular and may not have been familiar with all the Whites players.

I expected Whites to win, but 22-2 or worse is unbelievable. We've had more uneven line ups before, without the margin being worse than 10-3 or 12-4 (if I remember correctly).

I think in terms of quality of players, Whites had a slight edge overall. The main advantage Whites had was that every player was a longstanding Saturday regular, while Reds only had two longstanding Saturday regulars.

The experience of the particular game can make a lot of difference. But still, 22-2, or worse?

And if so, the game was crying out for the line ups to be re-done anytime after the score reached 4-0, or 6-1, or 8-2 ....

Add any comments about the game below.

well, as for the line-ups. i have voiced my opinion in the line-ups thread some time back to little avail. i also predicted that anything else is unlikely to work.

the game started a tad late but seemed balanced for about 20-25 min with reds taking the lead. whites quickly took control and a 3 goal lead about 30-40 min into the game. reds team started to become disorganized and at the same time seems to have lost the believe/desire to win and it became a one sided affair indeed. don't think it was close to 22-2 but admittedly i lost count after 8:2.

personally, i had a tough time getting over the lack of sportmanship and/or manners from a red player. even if a game is frustrating we should all aim to sustain a minimum standard of respect for each other.

I think the final score was 9-2 . Reds played well the first 30 mins at least while whites struggled to play as a team .

9-2 isn't that bad. We've had worse.

For this weekend's games, see under "The Premier Pitch @ Turf City" and "Weekend games".

Foo Cheong, I've moved your response on re-doing the line ups during the game to the "Keeping score & the competitive edge" thread.

Jan 30, 2012 10:04:44 GMT 8 Foo Cheong said:

....

Swapping players is not practical : swapping just one player may not be enough to level the playing field; it seems to be the case in this game. Many do not bring the other colour.

An easier, and more gracious, way would be for the stronger team to ease off and swap their players' positions. The stronger players play goalie and defenders while the defenders get their chance to play strikers. I was not there so would not know if this happened. However swapping player arounds may still not level the playing field if the teamwork is still good.

The weekend games (including Sunday's) are good examples of the x-factor that is required: teamwork and organisation. On paper the line-ups look fairly balanced but the outcomes were one-sided.

The playing styles of some players just cannot click together, through no fault of theirs, so when they come together, the teamwork is just not there. Some players are adaptable and can fit into any position or style of play and make the team stronger.

This is what make things interesting and unpredictable.

never been an advocate of swapping. but i am also not an advocate of changing positions due to domination of a team. what's so wrong with losing? are'nt we all looking for a challenge - the bigger, the better?
i can tell from my own experience that it is a much bigger challenge to accept a loss, to stay calm when one gets trashed than to cruise to a victory. but the point is that the opportunity to learn is never larger than from an uncomfortable, humiliating situation that clearly sucks.

as the prediction poll indicated the line-ups per se did nt scream for a one sided game. why was it balanced for about 30 min? why did reds lose by such a margin in the end? definitly a huge void to be filled with lessons if one wants to get better from this experience.

I moved Foo Cheong's post because it relates to our games generally, but I've left Rainer's here, as it relates more to the Saturday game in particular (and it was posted after I already moved Foo Cheong's post and replied to it on the other thread ). Anyway, so that we know what we're talking about, I've added Foo Cheong's post as a quote to Rainer's.

I agree it's not fair on anyone for the winning side to ease off just to make the scoreline more respectable. The game becomes very flat.

I've also moved all the subsequent posts in response to the two posts above to the "Keeping score & the competitive edge" thread, as:

* They don't relate to this game, and have broader implications.
* So they can be placed in context.

A trashing never makes a good game, whether you're on the losing or winning side, I know a few players who agree with that.

There were a few glitches that made the lineups unbalanced this time :
- the selectors involvement was disproportionate
- the last minute swap was not really appropriate and made it worse

I also think that the prediction poll is not statistically significant.
We spoke about the lineups just before the game and there was somewhat of a consensus in favour of whites.

This being said I don't like to swap players before the game or during the game b/c it's like ranking one above the other, so better get it right from the start.

I've played 3 times this year (2 GIFFA and 1 Monday regulars) and ended up in the same situation 3 times. I can take it, no problem, but it does take some of the fun away...

It's the immediate reaction to a poor game. Some verbalise it more than others. Sometimes, it lasts for the rest of the day, into the next day. All the regulars must be ok with it though, because they come back for more!

Even the two who SMSed me - Stanley played the next day, while Ganesh SMSed me a short while later to say forget it.

I know but my point is that we need to fix the lineup thinghy.

How about you carry on doing the lineups and the first two players who complain about lineups will have to do them next time?

Actually, having 2 players as selectors was working out quite well until Saturday. Of course, there are lessons to be learnt from Saturday. The spread of regulars is the most obvious. It's still open for discussion on the "Line ups" thread.

Hi Rajiv

What about all good days where you do the line up or either choose one person who is experience enough or either know most of the Sat players well enough to do the line up. Having two person to decide can be challenging . I still prefer either you do the line up or your Next of Kin

I believe for last sat Line up , both parties agreed with the line up . The Whites looked stronger on paper but we have had this before where the underdogs did better instead .

Actually what i felt was reds played really well probably the first 30 mins and they could have won the match if they kept their heads up . Fred kept both Heads Up and put 100% till the last second of the match .

Foo Cheong, I keep moving your posts from this thread to the "Keeping score & the competitive edge" thread because they're not about this game, and have broader implications.

Rockstar, more about line ups on the "Line ups" thread.

Jan 30, 2012 17:38:37 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

Foo Cheong, I keep moving your posts from this thread to the "Keeping score & the competitive edge" thread because they're not about this game, and have broader implications.

Thanks and my apologies. I only know how to quote and reply in the same thread, don't know how to quote and reply and move it to another thread.

"personally, i had a tough time getting over the lack of sportmanship and/or manners from a red player. even if a game is frustrating we should all aim to sustain a minimum standard of respect for each other."

In response to the thread above, i would like to say that a minimum level of sportsmanship and/or manners shown to other players would be to shut our pie holes and get on with the game. With respect to the particular incident in question, Rainer was sliding to tackle me from behind and he won the ball cleanly as i was moving forward to control the ball. My foot ended up on his ankle for a brief moment and without any malicious intent at all. As everyone could witness, i couldnt even see him let alone try to injure him.

I weigh a grand total of 48kg. Even if my entire body weight was placed upon his ankle that would be all the bone crunching force Rainer would have had to endure. In reality i was on one foot and less than half my body weight leaned onto him upon impact so boo hoo... what excruciating pain the martyr of football had to suffer! My point is that this is a contact sport and we all play whole heartedly and with full passion, contact is unavoidable. I tore my MCL in my right knee in 2010 from a tackle from Jye who weighs easily over 80 kg and he was sliding towards me at full force. I was out for six months. I have torn my right ankle ligament late 2011 from Sivaraj catching my trailing foot. I was out for 2-3 weeks and strap my ankles up every game now to prevent injury. In none of those incidents or many other points of contact have i ever bitched about other players because i know they were never malicious! its part and parcel of a robust and good game. Just take it like a man or do some other activity like touch rugby or knitting.

You are a hardworking all action type of player yourself. Many defenders have been caught by you whilst executing a clearance or turning away in defence. It is no less painful or culpable than what treatment you think you have received but we just shut our mouths and play on. Fine examples of such players are Elvin and Dan B. They are skilful playmakers/goalscorers who take a terrible amount of punishment but never complain and just get on with the game.

That is called respect to other players because when we start opening our mouths and talking crap... it just disrupts the rhythm of the game and irritates other players around you. Its always the same few that have a lot to yak on about, i think the rest of us just wanna play our games in peace.

On a separate note, i would like to apologise to the other players involved in the game on Saturday. Arjit and I were supposed to select the team line ups. However i am usually busy on Saturdays spending time with my family so i really didnt even check to see whether the line ups were balanced. As a result the game was hugely unbalanced and it probably wasnt enjoyable for a number of players.

Personally i would prefer if Rajiv picked the line ups as it tends to be more neutral and has worked well thus far. If that is not possible then i elect to opt myself out of picking the line ups. I never have an issue with line ups personally. I would play for any team.

Don't worry about it CH. It wasn't the most one-sided game over the past week even!

Now if it had been 22-2 or worse, as Stanley seemed to think ....

CH - i find your post funny. it's well written - did you write it yourself?

it is up to the other players to judge whether i am the type who goes down easily, complains alot about tackles, and is often on the ground rolling in pain. you are one of the players so i accept your opinion.

all i was looking for was a quick tap on the shoulder, or a re-assuring 'sry bro was not intentional'. everybody else has never missed that opportunity before in my previous 100 games. consequently, it appears to be the basics of good sportsmanship/fair play which all other players have proven to possess. it's a pity that you are still working to reach that level.

If anyone is in doubt of meeting the basic standard of sportsmanship he/she should have a go at an exam question posted in one of the GIFFA entry-exams:

Question 24:
Player A is a defender. He tries to clear the ball but instead of kicking the ball into the half of team B it hits player B straight in the face. Player B goes on his knees holding his nose. What should player A do?

a) open a can of beer, walk over to the kids at the vending machine, tell them what a tough hammer he is and show them a scar on his left toe from a past injury.

b) shout at player B “vala-neee, that can’t possibly hurt coz I only weight 48 kg”.

c) tell player B “shut your pie-hole you bitch” before player B catches his breath.

d) none of the above.

i am more than willing to move on. don't even mind playing with you or against you. just wish you were on the same level of sportsmanship than the other players.

The following had the initial teams which was posted
Team 1 : Dave H , Adrian Kwok, Jye , Lynz, Rockstar , Rainer , Arijit , Uday
Team 2: Azmi , Leo , Sivaraj , CH Lim , Fred , Stan the Man , Ganesh , Boris

Team 1 had 6 saturday regulars and team 2 had 4 saturday regulars.
I had explicitly metioned am awaiting feedback from CH on the teams. Meanwhile Shivaraj dropeed out and CH's request to swap out Boris with Adrian Kwok as they wanted to be both in the same teams. I do believe if the above line up's were played things woul have been balanced . The reds did play well in the initial 30 minutes and did open the scoring. While the whites organized , the reds fizzled away .We have had worse scores than 9-2 and I have been on the lossing side in such games . Whats the challange with that?

I think first of all we have to scrap this ideas of friends wanna play with friends in the same team unless if the line up is well balanced . If Sivaraj would have played for Team 2 i agree it would have been a diff story . Otherwise what Arjit initially suggested was also well balanced .

So we can only come to conclusion that scoreline would have been diff if

1)Silvaraj would have played
2) Line up would have remained suggested by Arjit
3) If STAN THE MAN would have come on time ( He came in at 17.15pm- Can somoene deduct credit from him - He was still taking his sweet time wearing his stockings and his make up when i was shouting for him to hurry up )


Like what i have mentioned , something went wrong with Reds after 30 mins - there were many disagreements and arguments within the team mates that could have changed the whole game .