Individual skills, attributes & positions

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As the subject matter has been modified from time to time, as described in various posts below, any given post may not fall squarely within the subject matter. As at 17 February 2014, this first post on this thread was:

Feb 27, 2011 11:04:50 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

The issue of taking turns in goal has been raised again:

Feb 26, 2011 19:11:23 GMT 8 Mike P said:

Might be worth reminding everyone of one of the points under 'Playing Rules & Principles' tho this is not in particular reference to Thursday.

"
The players in each team take turns in goal. It’s the only break you get! Unless a player volunteers to spend more time in goal, everyone should spend a similar amount of time in goal. The goalkeeper can come out of the "D" but can only handle the ball within the "D". Other players can enter the D."

Everyone makes the trip down looking forward to a good game of workout and fun. Everyone.

So let's all take turns being in the goal so EVERYONE can have a taste of the fun yeah?

One suggestion giffas.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=admin&thread=616&post=6567 was made before by Justin.

I'm not sure how everyone else feels but I think this will set the right tone for the game, and newcomers will learn the right goalie attitude from the example set by the players.

My 8 cents' worth. ;D

Earlier, I had summarized the position:

Feb 15, 2011 17:14:16 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

Feb 15, 2011 12:52:35 GMT 8 Justin R said:

Could we try something more proactive?

....

To re-produce the discussion from November 2008:

17 November 2008 at 11:58 am, Gilbert L wrote:

To my knowledge, most of us are outfield players and do not excel at our goalkeeping duties. We do not clock much airtime in between the posts (besides Sze Kuan). In fact, most shun this position as we are afraid of injuring our fingers or only assume this role when we get too tired running around. But in reality, the goalkeeper (in my opinion) is the most important player as he has the responsiblity to keep the opposition from scoring. Defenders can effectively keep opposing players from entering the D but when a shot is released, the goalie has to deal with it. I think one of the reasons for the recent high scoring games is that our goalies are not able to deal with the ever increasing technical skills of strikers.

17 November 2008 at 2:39 pm, Rajiv (admin), wrote:

I know Clive is in favour of everyone serving equal periods in goal. He raised it with me earlier in the year, and brought a stop clock along for the next session!

....

For now, I’d rather leave the method of substituting goalkeepers to the teams themselves ....

24 September 2009 at 5:15 pm, Rajiv (admin) wrote:

Neil S raised with me today that some players seem to spend more time in goal than others, and whether each player should have a fixed time in goal.

I’d rather leave it to the teams themselves. However, unless a player volunteers to spend more time in goal, everyone should take turns in goal. It’s highlighted under [the rules].

As cited above, taking turns in goal has been part of the rules and principles for some time.

I'll include a reminder with the line ups for now.

I included a reminder for a couple of games, but what with suggesting line ups, and, for 7-a-side games at Sports Planet, checking on the weather, implementing prepayment , and arranging to collect from those who haven't prepaid, I've overlooked the reminder in several games since then.

The rules expressly provide:

Nov 21, 2010 16:37:14 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

....

* The players in each team take turns in goal. It’s the only break you get! Unless a player volunteers to spend more time in goal, everyone should spend a similar amount of time in goal. ....

....

Each schedule thread includes the statement:

Please read the General Information and Playing Rules & Principles posts first. Your participation in our games depends on it.

Justin's suggestion:

Feb 15, 2011 12:52:35 GMT 8 Justin R said:

....

....
-Everyone is assigned a slot to get in goal.
-Use the team allocation as the list. For eg.:
Whites: Rai (0-10mins), Hail (10-20mins), Stephen (20-30mins), Bryan F (30-40mins), Eugene (40 - 50mins), Stan (50-60mins), Jason M (60-end of game)
Reds: Andre (0-10mins), Lloyd (10-20mins), Justin (20-30mins), Nick H (30-40mins), Kumar (40 - 50mins), Gilbert L (50-60mins), Niel L (60-end of game)

This slotting arrangement will definitely not and should not be "enforced" but serves as a guide and reminder that everyone needs to be in goal. Players can at least ask, "who has not been in goal yet?"

Players should obviously still go in goal even if they've already "served their sentence" if they get out of breath...

It's just a suggestion. I do not wish to detract anyone from having fun. But lets not have fun at the cost of someone else sacrificing theirs...

I don't believe Justin was suggesting more detailed rules. Anyway, more detailed or technical rules are usually not helpful, and detract from the enjoyment of the activity. The rules serve a simple function:

Nov 21, 2010 16:37:14 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

....

The rules are geared towards keeping the game flowing while reducing the risk of injury and are intended to accommodate different styles of play.

...

More important is playing in the right spirit.

I'll try to remember to include a reminder about everyone taking turns in goal when suggesting line ups. If I overlook it, any regular can post a reminder on the schedule thread before the game.

If a consensus can be reached amongst those playing in a game on a method of ensuring the rule is complied with, all the better.

Over the years, there have been a few wrist and finger injuries sustained by players in goal.

Perhaps a discussion on how to minimize the risk of such injuries would also be useful, and perhaps address one of the concerns some players have about going in goal. Safety is always an issue.

On the other hand, I don't think the risk of wrist and finger injuries while in goal are any greater than the risk of injury while playing outfield. Any sport carries the risk of injury. The aim is to reduce the risk, even if it is impossible to eliminate it.

Perhaps some players don't have the confidence to play in goal. Our games are an opportunity to work on our weaknesses, including lack of confidence.

If any player is reluctant to go in goal because he believes he is too good or valuable an outfield player to go in goal, then he is mistaken, and not playing in the right spirit. In any event:

Jan 11, 2011 18:21:52 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

....

None of us are great players, for if we were, we should be asking ourselves why we are playing here rather than at a high level in the professional game.

....

We can discuss any other concerns or issues about taking turns in goal on this thread.

^{(Note: Previously entitled "Taking turns in goal")}

Just my thoughts guys as I have also noticed that goalkeeping can be an issue from time to time....

I agree with Justin that every 5 - 10 (depending on the number of players) minutes there is a regulated keeper change so everyone has a spell in goal.... Unless someone is tired or injured and specifically wants extra time in goal it seems the fairest way to do it

Mar 3, 2011 17:22:39 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

Reds: Andre, Mike P, Ben Y, Stanley, Murray, Uday, Alex F
Whites: Sufian, Melvin Au, Bryan F, Noor, Rai, Gilbert L, Justin

great game tonight.
and i'm feeling aches all over now.

have played 17 games so far and think it's about time i self rate myself for the fun of it. haha

scale of 0 (lowest) to 9 (highest)

Description	Rating	Remarks
First touch	2	Everyone should know by now i'm bad at it.
Player awareness & positional sense	5	So far average only lah.
Passing	4	Straight forward pass can. Ask me loop people, play stunt i cannot.
Dribbling	2	I suck at this too.
Shooting	0	If you can see my shots landing in the net, it's my lucky day!
Tackling and closing down	7	That's about the only thing i can do.
Communication	3	I only know how to shout "Man On!"
Speed	5	Old already. I fare better last time.
Stamina and durability	4	Need to work on this.
Physical presence or strength	4	Not there yet
Tactical awareness	0	What is this?
Goalkeeping	3	"Lobang" King. Nuff said. Haha

Hi Bryan, I see you used the categories from the "Self-Rater" post on the blog.

As stated on that page:

Rate yourself on each of the above abilities as a comment below.

Like everything else on FIOFAFI, this is entirely voluntary. “Volunteering” on behalf of others may be an excellent skill possessed by a select few, particularly useful in the workplace and at parties, but it is not a footballing ability, nor is it in keeping with FIOFAFI’s voluntary nature.

If you do rate yourself, try to be honest, or as honest as you can be in the circumstances. As always, this is just for fun.

Keeping the team's shape and passing well is the most effective way to play.

The following are the skills you need:

* First touch
* Player awareness & positional sense
* Passing
* Tackling & closing down
* Communication

Rate yourself on the above. Our games provide everyone an opportunity to work on these aspects of their game.

New players can be hit or miss. We have had some very good new players, but over the years, we've had some quite poor ones.

At worst, we've had new players with little or no ball control or passing ability, who run around a bit when it suits, them, just trying to get their foot to the ball at times, sometimes, getting in the way of their own team-mates. To compound it, sometimes, such new players think they are better than they are, and refuse to spend more time in goal. Fortunately, just a handful over the years.

On the other hand, there are several who have become better players after playing regularly with us.

However, I think we need minimum standards. I assume that registered players who introduce new players as guests have played with their guests before and can vouch that they meet our minimum standards.

For new players who find us through the internet, I may impose additional requirements. For example, I may ask them to rate themselves on the above skills.

Jul 23, 2011 10:35:58 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

New players can be hit or miss. We have had some very good new players, but over the years, we've had some quite poor ones.

At worst, we've had new players with little or no ball control or passing ability, who run around a bit when it suits, them, just trying to get their foot to the ball at times, sometimes, getting in the way of their own team-mates. To compound it, often, such new players think they are better than they are, and refuse to spend more time in goal. Fortunately, just a handful over the years.

On the other hand, there are several who have become better players after playing regularly with us.

....

Newer players who struggle with the pace of our game, or have difficulty with fitting into the shape of the team, should spend a bit more time in goal.

Playing in goal can also improve your outfield game in the following ways:

* As the whole game is played in front of you, you develop a better sense of the shape of the game, the advantages of passing over dribbling, the need for good ball control and awareness to sustain a passing game, and the strengths and weaknesses of individual players.
* The need to remain focused even when not in possession, thus working on aspects of the game with a mental element such as alertness and reflexes.

I aim to include a reminder to take turns in goal when putting up the line ups over the next few weeks.

Jul 23, 2011 10:53:09 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

....

Playing in goal can also improve your outfield game in the following ways:

....
* The need to remain focused even when not in possession, thus working on aspects of the game with a mental element such as alertness and reflexes.

....

Alertness and reflexes can be added to the first list.

Jul 23, 2011 10:53:09 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

....

Newer players who struggle with the pace of our game, or have difficulty with fitting into the shape of the team, should spend a bit more time in goal.

Playing in goal can also improve your outfield game in the following ways:

* As the whole game is played in front of you, you develop a better sense of the shape of the game, the advantages of passing over dribbling, the need for good ball control and awareness to sustain a passing game, and the strengths and weaknesses of individual players.
....

....

It is frustrating to watch a player repeatedly get in the way of his own team mates, or passes intended for a player in a better position, because of a lack of positional awareness.

Even if the player doesn't go in goal, playing in defence helps, as much as the game is still played in front of him, enabling him to watch and learn.

The alternative is to stick the player in the opposing D and hope he is able to tuck away any lose balls. It may serve a purpose in any one game, and the player may enjoy the cheap thrill of scoring cheap goals, but in the longer term, he's not going to improve on his contribution to his team.

Aug 27, 2011 17:24:12 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

....

When I put the name of a player I don't personally know for his first game, I will send him an e-mail which will include the following:

To help me with the line ups, please let me have a rough idea of your standard, your strengths and weaknesses, and your preferred position. Please note that there are no substitutes and every player takes a turn in goal. If you are not currently playing regularly, please pace yourself over the course of the one-hour game.

This covers several recurring issues:

....
* Abilities.
....

Aug 27, 2011 17:24:12 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

....

When I put the name of a player I don't personally know for his first game, I will send him an e-mail which will include the following:

To help me with the line ups, please let me have a rough idea of your standard, your strengths and weaknesses, and your preferred position. Please note that there are no substitutes and every player takes a turn in goal. If you are not currently playing regularly, please pace yourself over the course of the one-hour game.

This covers several recurring issues:

....
* Taking turns in goal.
....

Sept 5, 2011 15:22:56 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

....

Vision is grossly under-estimated in our games.

We should all try the Self-Rater.

....

As stated above, it's from the old blog - "Self-Rater". The links on that post lead to even earlier discussions on some of the issues.

Perhaps I should fine tune the list a bit:

* First touch.
* Player awareness & positional sense - awareness of where you are on the pitch and what's going on around you, including movements off the ball by your team-mates or opponents.
* Passing.
* Dribbling.
* Shooting & finishing.
* Tackling and closing down.
* Communication.
* Speed.
* Stamina and durability.
* Physical presence or strength.
* Tactical awareness and discipline - overall contribution to the team's shape/organization and sticking with the game plan. We don't play with a coach/manager/captain, so each player has to contribute.
* Goalkeeping.

Sept 5, 2011 14:33:36 GMT 8 Rainer said:

....

also, being a striker is a somehow more popular position as being a goalkeeper. in my opinion a striker shud score, if he is not scoring he has to press, if he is not scoring, nor pressing, he has to help out with defensive work and if he is too tired for all this then he needs to volunteer as goalkeeper.

....

Pressing is a task every outfield player should do when the opposing team has possession, especially when in the defending team's half, whether playing in attack, midfield defence. Sometimes, to conserve energy, you might not want to press when the opposing team is merely knocking the ball around in defence, in which case it may not be fruitful for a lone striker to press (unless he has a lot of surplus energy he wishes to expend ).

However, if a striker is not scoring even when chances are being created, perhaps he should take a break from being striker and move to a different position.

All of that aside, our games are intended for players of varying abilities.

Jan 11, 2011 18:21:52 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

From the outset, our games have been open to all adults. The only requirement has been that participants play in the right spirit.

....

On the other hand, our games are not just a kick-about. Although intended to be social, they can be quite competitive and demanding. Those who haven't played before in out games may find it takes a few games to get used to them. Even those who have been haven't played for a while may take a a few games to get back into the swing of things.

....

It is easier to know what kind of game to expect if you you are familiar with the other players in that game. If you introduce your friends to our games, then of course, you are more likely to have your friends playing in the same game.

On the other hand, we regularly have new players, so you are just as likely to have new players in a game.

....

None of us are great players, for if we were, we should be asking ourselves why we are playing here rather than at a high level in the professional game.

....

and

Jun 28, 2011 11:50:42 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

....

Our regular games remain open to all adults.

However, as the standard keeps going up with new players, and games become more competitive, I need to consider how to accommodate weaker players, or those looking for a less competitive game.

I've considered having different kinds of games before. Trying to re-start a mixed game may be the first way forward.

A small proportion of our players struggle, especially when they first join our games. On the other hand, I have seen some improve drastically after playing regularly.

However, the period during which they are improving can be frustrating, either for themselves, or for those on their team. We've lost a few good players over the years because of this frustration.

A mixed game is a way for weaker players to get more game time, especially after they first start playing, without any pressure or disrupting the balance of the teams in our regular games.

We need to be realistic about our abilities.

The mixed game is not just for weaker players. It is also for stronger players looking for a less competitive game, or for any player who has female friends who want to play as well.

I'm not going to label any individual player who plays in a mixed game as stronger or weaker.

More so than our regular games, which have become increasingly competitive and tactical, a mixed game will primarily be about fitness and fun.

Sept 19, 2011 11:52:56 GMT 8 Elvin said:

I think anybody that bring someone in for a game should ensure that the player should be able to at least know the basics of the game. Not knowing how to control a simple ball or execute a pass is only going to spoil the game for everyone else on his team.

....

and

Sept 19, 2011 12:12:49 GMT 8 Raj Singh said:

Totally agree with elvin . We have to understand everyone made time to play and also paid to play . If anyone brings a friend should be sure that he can play at least . It could have been a competitive match for the whites otherwise it was more like 8 versus 7 . ....

This has come up a few times recently, and I've been giving some thought to it for a while, as is evident from the posts above.

Earlier, I had said:

Feb 2, 2011 13:17:20 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

....

I hope that new players meet our standards. When you introduce a new player, you are vouching for that. ....

....

And above:

Jul 23, 2011 10:35:58 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

New players can be hit or miss. ....

....

On the other hand, there are several who have become better players after playing regularly with us.

..., I think we need minimum standards. I assume that registered players who introduce new players as guests have played with their guests before and can vouch that they meet our minimum standards.

....

I was thinking about new rules from next year, but I think they need to be introduced sooner. With effect from this weekend's games:

* If you put down the name of a player for a regular game who has not played with us before, you must vouch (on the message board, when putting his name down) that you have played in a game with him before, and that he meets our minimum standards.
* If you cannot vouch for that, he must post a Self-Rater on the "New Player" sub-board.
* If neither condition is met, he can only remain in reserve, and can only play if we have no other players available.

The above does not apply to mixed games, so introducing him to a mixed game might be a better way to bring in a new player, whose abilities you're not familiar with. The rule may also be relaxed for extra games.

There were a few messages pre game about no studs/blades but these seems to have been ignored by some of the players.

As for the new players, if someone tells you they have played a lot, can play and wants to play, what are you supposed to do? Obviously if they come once and see it is not right for them they are unlikely to come again. But I think we need to remember that this is an open game (unlike invite only games). It is also not a competitive game. Sure it is better when the teams are even and the march is close, but one sided scorelines are not always due to one new/weak player.

As more games are added, Rajiv may want to set games of different levels, but I will leave that to his judgment.

Reza, I've moved your post above to this thread, and addressed the points made in the following threads:

* New players.
* Proper footwear for our games.
* One-sided games.
* The competitive edge.

As I've said before, players are stronger or weaker relative to the others playing in that game. A stronger player in one game may be a weaker player in another game, and vice versa.

Oct 17, 2011 8:06:11 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

.... it's not just about stamina.

There are several older players who play the Saturday game, who while they cannot match some of the younger players for stamina, more than make up for it with good awareness, positional sense, first touch, ball control and passing. And composure.

..... The Saturday game is currently one of the faster-paced, and the most-pressurized game we have. (Actually, all our games seem to be moving that way). It's a game in which it's easier to work on your fitness and pressing, but not so easy to work on the other aspects of your game. You really need to spend more time with a ball to work on these other aspects. You should consider playing in different kinds of games to get more game time, or even just taking a ball out on your own and practising passing and ball control. If you can work on these basic aspects, the composure will come in time.

....

You should try out the Self-Rater, whether on the message board itself, or on your own.

....

i don't like the self-rater because of the following:

- what is the reference of the scale from 0 - 9? 9 is 'highest' but 'highest' compared to what?
- i don't think it reflects the value of a player as it is heavy on technical skills such as passing/dribbling/first touch and short on less obvious skills such as ability to organize a team, desire to win, motivation, and temporary things such as form.

the way i see it is that technical skill is about 1/3, communication/ability to organize/leadership is about 1/3, and desire to win/motivation/form is about 1/3 of an overall rating for an individual player on our level of play. the scale should refer to the giffa player that does best in this are (he is the '9') and giffa player that does worst in this area (he is literally the '0'). the reason why i come up with this is that i feel some players are overrated and others are underrated.

to put some specifics on this i would like to mention the example of jason who was recently advised to use the self-rater. on my self-rater he comes out much better than on the existing one as he scores high in the desire to win/motivation/form area.

as always - my thoughts are just that. don't hesitate to take em apart if you feel they are rubbish.

There is no absolute standard or overall ranking here.

It's all relative, not necessarily between different players, but even just between the different abilities of a single player. It's just a way of being able to identify one's strengths and weaknesses.

Now Hot Or Not on the other hand ....

Oct 23, 2011 11:42:55 GMT 8 Rajiv said:

....

The social aspect requires more flexibility, to allow players to try out different positions.

And to work on their weaknesses.